The E-commerce Leader

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[00:00:30] Intro: Hey folks, welcome back to the e-commerce lead to the place to be for those who want to be the best e-commerce leader they can be today. We’re talking about a very sort of meat and potatoes standard topic, which nevertheless bears some deep looking into, which is how to get wonderful. Pictures or Amazon listings or Shopify images that will product images specifically that will really drive sales and profitably.
[00:00:53] So as well, and, today we’re going to continue with our list of 10 basic steps to get this right. So with no further ado, let’s plunge into the content. I hope you enjoy it.
[00:01:03] Jason: so number six is create a clear brief,
[00:01:11] Michael: which means I would say so it’s basically a table which has, you know, shot numbers over here on Amazon. You probably have one to nine and one’s 10 and then some alternative shots to keep it fresh or to experiment with. And then you need to be very clear, you know, what are you trying to get across the Italian?
[00:01:27] You know, brief them properly. What, what are you trying to get across? What’s the benefit? What’s the results that using this product will do? What feature are you trying to showcase and then try and describe how you want them to photograph it and give them example, maybe a scribbled sort of back of the napkin, sketch, maybe an example from a competitor, but you know, Vite on it with sketch or whatever.
[00:01:45] So try and communicate as clearly as you can, with words and visual examples, what is you want them?
[00:01:50] Jason: I think that’s such a great, great idea. So that brief would include all of the things you’ve collected in step one through five, who you’re going after all the types of shots you have all of that kind of sure.
[00:02:02] I mean,
[00:02:02] Michael: the more they are a commercially minded photographer who gets what their role is as part of marketing, a product as part of the commercial. Yeah. Profit making exercise. The more that we’ll get this, that the more you have to educate them about this, then you know, you, you may save money for what you lose on the swings you gain on the roundabouts, as we say here.
[00:02:19] So you may spend a hundred bucks instead of 500 bucks on somebody who’s quite good with lighting and beautiful photos, but doesn’t understand marks it, but you’re gonna have to spend a lot of time holding their hand and really making sure they understand in my experience, if you hired somebody cheap who doesn’t have experience, you just have to the first round of photography, you just look at.
[00:02:37] That has nothing to do with what I asked or that you have to go back round and revise it. So it’s normally false economy to go to your sheet with this stuff. I would prefer somebody with a good experience in this game, myself.
[00:02:48] Jason: Yeah. Okay, great. I love this. This is great. So that, that really sets the tone for what you.
[00:02:54] You know, getting through the photography process. All right. What’s what’s step number seven.
[00:02:59] Michael: Seven is really revise and clarify the brief probably before you even get it near the photographer. So it starts off as like an internal document, really. And you can discuss it with your team or maybe a coach.
[00:03:09] If you’re working with one in the end, you’re going to need to come down. I think to four types of image for this one. Work. Okay. The first was an onward or main image, which is designed to be shown in the Amazon search results. You probably would use that in your catalog and the Shopify store as well.
[00:03:22] Second one is detailed product shots. We are trying to put across various specific features. Thurman was infographics, which depending on how technical your product is, you may need to kind of do little diagrams. You know, if you’re doing moisture-wicking fabric to show the exact texture of the fabric or something like that, and then a very neglected one, but I think is really important is the lifestyle shots, which is showing the products.
[00:03:43] In a context being used by human beings and a lack of human beings always distresses me when I see product detail pages. Cause that that is not going to engage your potential buyer, I think.
[00:03:54] Jason: Yeah. Yeah, no, this is great. So, so the four are an onward. Or, you know, product image. And then the second one is a detailed, product.
[00:04:02] Michael: Yeah. I suppose I should say detailed, product features. Yeah. Get your shots.
[00:04:07] Jason: Sure. Yeah. And then infographics, I think there’s, you know, to describe that a bit as a product feature shots. Graphic art on top of them. I is infographic in my mind is sort of the old school Pinterest listicle type item that has sort of cartoony vibes.
[00:04:23] This is not that this is more of a graphic art treated photo that really calls out specific elements of the features or benefits, that kind of thing. Normally, I
[00:04:34] Michael: would say you might even subsidy if it’s clearer and again, clarity is everything. If it’s clear that you might even do a little drawn diagram, in some cases, it just depends what communicates better.
[00:04:44] So, and that might mean you need the services of a graphic artist rather than photographer. Yeah. That’s normally going to be party to the mixing. Yeah.
[00:04:52] Jason: I love the, sometimes those, line drawing type, images that have, you know, they, they add clarity to the, in the customer’s mind in terms of how the product looks or works.
[00:05:03] Yeah. So that’s fantastic. And then lifestyle shots or editorial, that’s really the type of photography that falls into more of the domain of use usefulness on Shopify, because those are the. Images that turn into your, you know, your homepage, top of site, you know, image or slider and your, you know, secondary images on your site for many re uses, in collections, images and that kind of thing.
[00:05:27] So the lifestyle, other people call it editorial, photography, but those are the, you know, images that are. Harder to get because they require models or humans. Yes. And so that’s, that’s a part of the process that is, can be a trick for people. Well, who don’t have any, any, you know, kind of a background in getting professional photography done.
[00:05:50] And I, you know, I will just say on this, the shot list, What you’ve you’ve, you’ve mentioned here for number seven, and I suppose it goes right into your point point number eight, which I’ll just call out, which is work with your photographer. This is a step that I think can be incredibly, challenging for people who don’t have.
[00:06:06] Core traits go inside their business. I’m met with, someone yesterday who, as a prospective coaching client and, her commentary was what my background is a wedding photography. And I was like, oh, oh, that’s why your website looks so amazing. That’s why your product shots look so amazing. You know?
[00:06:25] It is just an unfair advantage. If you have this technical trade skill inside your company, whether it’s your spouse or your, you know, your, your. Have a professional background in photography, you really can go through this list of four things with an elegance and a speed. That is an unfair advantage.
[00:06:43] And I’ll just point that point that out. I mean, cinnamon my wife before we started our business. Worked as a family photographer for a year, she ended up ultimately hating that work as a business, but really enjoying the photography components of it. She just didn’t want to sell photos. She didn’t want to coordinate with schedules.
[00:07:02] You know, it was all the business parts of it that kind of were horrible, but she liked the photography components of it. And so when we brought that to the e-commerce party, it made our life so much easier. I can’t imagine to be on. Doing e-commerce without having. Photography trade skills inside our business, but I work with clients that have to do that and I just see the slowness and the, the awkwardness of it.
[00:07:29] So I just want to point out that reality that, you know, if you’re, if you’re working through this process, without that trade skill inside your company, you do have a harder row to hoe. But if you actually have that trade skill and you’re not using it, really, really effectively, or maybe you didn’t see a lot of value.
[00:07:47] Then obviously there’s huge opportunity there for you to do well. Yeah.
[00:07:52] Michael: Yeah. You’re absolutely right. I guess it’s a bit like somebody, the difference. See, I did have a client who literally made his first round of product, so some kind of face cream or their kitchen table. And you know, if you want to innovate, you have a word to the factory manager, which is you, and then you go and do it.
[00:08:06] And it’s very quick and easy. Right? Most of us don’t have that luxury, have stuff made for some yes. And given the cinema. So they didn’t have has production team and a very high level. So it’s a simplified a hundred percent right? Working with a photographer, like working with the F with the manufacturers about, say, working with the suppliers.
[00:08:22] We’d only call it in the Amazon game, but it’s the same thing as suppliers or people who make stuff for you. It is an art and it’s really the art of management. You are forced to develop from learning. The trades could have been the technician. Now you, how do I make good photography to the management position in the industry of three parts?
[00:08:36] What’s the thing, the E-Myth revisited, kind of levels, right? Technician manager, entrepreneur. You’re forced to jump into managerial role, but often when you don’t know what you’re doing and you just have to get better over time at that, and you overtake pick carefully, do you pick somebody with commercial experience?
[00:08:49] That’s good. In other words, somebody who knows that they are doing. As you said, for example, one photo commuting, Katie, one simple point, not beautiful, but meaningless, and commercial experience is good. E-comm is better. And then age, you are wanting somebody to create some editorial photography for a Shopify site or something to write.
[00:09:07] Product detail page for Amazon, the style is different and you know, if they are Amazon or Shopify specific, then they will know if they’re doing Amazon shots. Just how kind of in your face they have to be. I mean, they’re not something I would put on a website is editorial shots. They’re certainly not something I would transfer.
[00:09:25] To a different country, even like the German style marks, it would be different from, from Amazon. So if you got somebody knows Amazon USA specifically, then they’re going to be so much easier to work with. If you’re trying to sell on Amazon USA than somebody who’s great at product shots for Germans in Shopify, for example, that’s how specific it can get.
[00:09:40] So the more they understand your world, the less explaining you have to do. And that’s, that’s fine. Yeah.
[00:09:46] Jason: I would take it, take it even a step beyond that, I think. And I would say that the, Photography in your business is a long-term requirement and you should approach this trade skill as building a trusted relationship with someone I would propose local to you that you could work with and not.
[00:10:07] And think of it like how you would work with a lawyer or a CPA or a being any other trades person in your local area in support of your company? I would be relational. I. I, I got PR great. I got exposure to this actually, as it happens from, going on trips to Africa with a professional commercial photographer, his name’s mark Kuroda, he shoots for Lulu lemon and he shot for a ton of big brands and, in California.
[00:10:35] And, he went on some trips with me to Africa when I wanted to learn how to do photography. And there he was with his incredibly expensive gear and his just massive. Work of, you know, knowing how to frame shots and just technically make the camera work in very challenging situations and going with him on multiple trips.
[00:10:56] What I realized of course is, you know, it’s, it’s friendship, building it’s relationship building it’s you want to work effectively with people. And so I would just challenge people who are listening to this show. If you’re not, if you don’t have technical photography competence in your own team, And you want to add it, do not treat these people like a commodity widget seller that you can order around do, do not do that.
[00:11:23] These are artists and, they’re frequently absolutely amazing at their craft and, and, to work with them for the long-term you need to treat them. A real relational, you know, approach and respect. So I guess working with photographers, that’s step number eight. To me really is all about the art of relationship building and for your long-term business benefits.
[00:11:46] Michael: Right. Actually weirdly enough in the last, so recently doing some work on behalf of clients, cause events sometimes like I mostly consultant tell people what to do, but sometimes I say, you know, what easier if you just let me do this or I’ll keep you informed then, and I’ll do it, but I’ll kind of educate you on the way.
[00:12:00] So I’ve worked with people who are sort of outside. People in, in various parts of the world, Pakistan was the last time I tried. Somebody’s doing some Photoshop work, by the way. It’s super hard to make things look good with Photoshop work. I’m not saying you should never do it if you haven’t got the budget, but it’s much better.
[00:12:13] It’s a higher model, so much easier. I’m just saying, but also the other person I’ve worked with recently is a, used to be an old flatmate of mine. So we’ve known each other for 12, 13 years. I’ve I’ve even assisted him on some photo shoots, driving the van while he did some shots out of the bucket of great fun.
[00:12:27] So yeah. The more, you understand each other more, they understand your world. Yeah. But it’s going to be even so to your point about them being artistic types, they are artistic types for all that. And I should know, as, as a musician, marital musicians, they have a certain way you have to handle them. They have certain pride there’s they also appreciate, you know, praise, as do I, but also you have to accept this, a creative, slightly messy process.
[00:12:49] Sometimes you have to say to a really good photographer. He was aiming for like a nine or 10 out of 10 and an eight out of 10 is realistically what the product is worth spending on. You have to say sometimes, you know, this looks amazing. We’re fine. We just need to get this done on the budget by Friday.
[00:13:04] Can we just kind of compromise them, managing that and asking for compromise from a perfectionist is, is a difficult thing. And you have to be able to manage that person as well. So yes, to your point, I absolutely agree. Building a longterm relationship, treat them with respect, learn that world. All of those things are absolutely.
[00:13:21] And
[00:13:22] Jason: then I would just say finally, as a, as a commentary, when, when working with a contractor in that way, You do want to be thinking about your long-term business, needs and your team. And if you have a business that is product photography intensive, then you do want to think about adding somebody with that technical trade skill to your team.
[00:13:43] So that they’re literally on your staff. Now, you know, some businesses is like, I’ve got three products. I just sell, you know, sell them everywhere that you don’t need a professional photographer on your team. Other businesses. You know, we launch a new product, you know, every day. Our website for our work at pixie fair, we have a publishing schedule.
[00:14:03] That’s four a day. That’s our, our cap for products, no four new products a day. And so we don’t always do that every day, but that’s, that’s the velocity with which we can in our system. New product releases. That’s a ton of photography. So, so, you know, so if you’re in that kind of system where it’s really intensive, then, you know, you want to think through how your staffing plan ultimately accommodates having somebody on your.
[00:14:29] It’ll just make your life so much faster, so much easier. And you’ll find your way, you know, in terms of, I’m sure there’s a middle ground between, you know, three products versus 3000. Yeah. But it
[00:14:39] Michael: certainly is. I know the odd business, not many because it’s so costly, but with physical products, but they, they were launching about 60 new products a quarter and you definitely.
[00:14:48] Production line. Yeah, a photographer there. I mean, production line in the broader sense that you can’t just walk them out on the white background when you can, but you weren’t getting a result in and probably not Shopify world either, you know? Yeah. Just one.
[00:15:01] Jason: Yeah, one final example on this one, that’s just kind of fun.
[00:15:04] I don’t know if our listeners will be familiar with a brand called Zulily, but they’re a billion dollar e-commerce operator in the Seattle area. They were launched, and then sold to QVC or home shopping network company. And, cinnamon and I did work with, did a deal with them, you know, where we listed our products and sold through them.
[00:15:23] And we went to their headquarters, which is in the. Headquarters building of Starbucks. So even that kind of gives you this, you know, skies and scope and scale of this company. And so, when we walked in, we saw on the first floor, they had literally just a huge waiting room of kids and moms. And you could tell they were all waiting to be in photo shoots.
[00:15:43] Like they were, they were the models waiting. And then we walked in and they literally had a huge. Huge room, Mike, you know, hope floor of a building that was just set up with booths for photographers. And their whole first floor was all their photography. They basically publish a catalog every day of new products and new images, and that’s kind of what their whole business is like.
[00:16:08] And so then you go up to the second story and the second story was all. People on computers doing the digital editing and processing, and you know, compilation of the, you know, the daily, you know, email and, and how they do their, you know, their marketing. But it was really fascinating, you know, it was like, this is like industrial strength, commercial photography, like, it was just fascinating to watch.
[00:16:30] So that was, it was a fun memory.
[00:16:33] Michael: In the end. If you’re gonna scale any business, you have to start off and they’d say nail it and then scale it. I think for most of us, we try and scale stuff, which coming back to the original point, people try and pull the traffic lever because that feels like a way to scale of things.
[00:16:43] And it is if what you’re scaling is working, but you can scale stuff like that way, you definitely will scale something, but we are normally scared as losses. If you don’t know what you’re doing. So the point of what you were saying, that is the ultimate aim. I think you’re right. Gets him in on the staff who understands photography, understands you and your company very, very deeply has got the brand values, has got the style.
[00:17:03] They can then train other people and yeah, you wouldn’t be able to mass produce it. But I think the first thing is have a rigorous process, which I’m trying to just communicate the flavor of this is obviously just a sort of overview. Before you worry about scaling it, otherwise you’ll just mass mass produce rubbish and I’ve seen people try and do that as well.
[00:17:18] They put some times when he products or a courtyard, but they’re horrible. By choice, that from Alibaba, Saudi one can copy them and they’re on whites, which just means you’re going to mass produce sales for Amazon. They’ll get their commission and you will make very little profit, if any. Yeah, well
[00:17:33] Jason: let’s yeah.
[00:17:34] I love that. Nail it and scale it. Let’s bring this home for, our listeners. So what’s, point number nine and 10.
[00:17:40] Michael: So point number nine of 10 is, ad punchy, short tax benefit driven. So this comes back to the point that I really am a words based person. So I start with that, but I’m not the only person that thinks if you have to choose, you know, words, don’t Trump image, Moxie with products.
[00:17:54] That’s not true, but they help you clarify concepts. And if you’re not conceptually clear, what am I communicating? Then you can’t get the work done. So Perry Marshall says image-based marketers need word based marketers, but not always the other way round. Now we think we’ve needed it. But in the end, if you are trying to get across a clear benefit, buy my product because it will do this for you.
[00:18:13] Unlike everybody else’s products. For example, then I think having the option to put, put short, clear text on is very often a smart beef. Not always, if it’s obvious that a woman’s relaxing in a bubble bath with a glass of wine and a hand, what you’re communicating, advising I, you get it. You probably don’t have to put that on the photo, but if there is some.
[00:18:33] Way that it could be interpreted 2, 3, 4 different ways. Be very clear, very simple unfussy but focus the, watch his mind very quickly, what it is. You’re trying to say. And again, this is direct response. Marketing is not about beautiful branding. I’m not trying to sell a Mercedes-Benz for $25,000 in or $50,000 in six months, time, three years time.
[00:18:54] I’m trying to get a response now. So don’t be too fussy about the fact that it isn’t quite as beautiful. But if it’s more effective, I think we need to just be willing to put that text on that.
[00:19:03] Jason: All right. This is a fascinating one to me. I’m gonna, I’m gonna just put a little bit of a different spin on this, 0.9.
[00:19:09] What you’ve just described editing, adding punchy short text to your photo is really one step in what I would call. The category, which has post-production. So the topic here, I think that’s just one, one way in which you could manipulate, laid a photo. Post-production but when we work with a photographer and, you know, kind of ongoing process, you want to become very clear on the actual management of the photos and the post-production process.
[00:19:36] W what is the final photo? Where do they reside in the cloud? Ideally, you know, whatever Dropbox or when do you get access to them who manipulates them? What does the photographer do to them? For example, if they put them through Lightroom as their process, they’ll change the color tones.
[00:19:52] And one of the, considerations for e-commerce work is you want the photo to look identical, identical to the actual in your hand, you know, and posts and photographers are usually optimized for color vibrancy and, you know, lighting and all a set of a whole set of, you know, elements to make the photo look amazing.
[00:20:16] And you just need to make sure you’re working with a product photographer, who knows that your trueness in representation is the most critical factor in addition to the beauty of the photo. So those, those elements and the management of the photos are to me all a part of step nine. And then of course, selecting and adding text over specific images, which images are best for, for example, a homepage.
[00:20:42] Or for a graphic infographic type treatment, those are all post-production considerations. And you just need to get real clear on, you know, who who’s, who does those, how are they handled? When are they handled all that? Yeah. Oh, call
[00:20:53] Michael: it. Yeah. I mean, I could not agree more. And that’s where most of the work, to be honest, I’m glad you brought that up.
[00:20:58] I mean, I didn’t mention it cause I don’t want to blow people’s minds brains or scare them. But I mean, Dropbox is my preferred tool because you can comment on it and if you’re familiar with it, many of them will be. Yeah, you got to have a super clear sense of mind. Like I could bore you for hours with the details of how I work with this stuff.
[00:21:15] I’m going to have add tables, set up with different statuses. And I have Dropbox folders for different states. There’s and there’s a lot that goes into it. But I think clarity about the process. Again, it’s a, yeah. Well, your job as the Marxist slash manager with the project is to move the project from inception to completion and out there actually making money for your company, or at least hopefully at least testing whether the images make money for you.
[00:21:37] And, yeah, you need to be very clear again, when it comes to artistic type management, they will often be a little bit vague or they just give you a ton of undifferentiated. Beautiful. But I’m different. And you may need to go back to and say, this is lovely. Could you organize it into folders please? And here’s the folders I want.
[00:21:53] And then this is the production process is the rule ones here, the ones I’ve started. And you know, you’ve got to really lay that all out for people and you can expect it to be pretty messy the first couple of times in my experience as well. And you’ve got a budget at the time for that. So, yeah, I absolutely agree.
[00:22:06] I mean, post-production is huge, but the very simplest version of post-production is we’re going to put some texts on, obviously you’ve got to start on the color and the font. Yeah. So even that has some decisions attached, but yeah, it post-production is huge. And you just need to allow for the fact that photography is, is like a, a third or a quarter of that.
[00:22:23] You hope the rest of it’s going back and forth. One thing I should bring up as well when you’ve worked with the photographer, when you engage them with that freelance, really make sure you’re in the contract, you state number one, how the production process is going to work, what you just said. Clarify that and how you want the folders organized preferably and specify Dropbox.
[00:22:41] If that’s going to work for both of all, just agree on the cloud system. But the other one is really make sure you ask for two or three rounds of revision. So once they’ve done what they think of as the role of photography, and then the first round of revisions of post-production work, you need to be able to look at it and say, Yeah, this color does not match up to the products I’ve got in my hand.
[00:22:59] If we send this, we’re going to get rude reviews. Yeah. Please, can you revise that and make sure they’ve got a copy by the way of the actual physical product, to your point about color you’re you’re so right. I’ve had reviews in the past from DNA and amateur photography, making it look pretty vibrant and it didn’t nice the product, so you’re absolutely right.
[00:23:15] So yeah. Make sure you built in an expectation in the contract with a photographer that you will need them to revise things, not once, but two or maybe three times after three. You’re probably taking the mic and you probably need to be clear that it’s not realist that you’re being perfectionist. You need to get it to a high level and then just get out of the door.
[00:23:32] Jason: So. Awesome. Okay. So what’s the final point in our process here?
[00:23:36] Michael: The final point compared to all that is, is very, very simple, but it’s a critical marketing decision. We should decide in the order of the photos. You should have some idea of that upfront, but once you have the photos, some of them just come out better than others.
[00:23:48] It’s an artistic creative thing. And sometimes it’s got a really punchy photo that doesn’t put across a very important. So that’s a bit of a tragedy, but you might put it in there somewhere. If you’ve got a Shopify site that will make a beautiful editorial site. So even though it won’t drive sales of a product, for example, we have less room for that, but really ideally you want to put things in the order of importance.
[00:24:08] So if you have a feature that is unique and therefore the benefit yeah. People buying from you can get from you. They can’t really get anywhere else. You absolutely got to showcase that probably in the first image, after the main image and even the main image need to be slightly focused on that. If it’s possible to do that without breaking terms of service and things.
[00:24:25] Yeah. And then work down in sort of descending order, because you’ve got to see. The majority of people will see the first image, maybe the second and most people will not scroll through all of them. And you’ve got to assume that the last photos are the least often views and therefore the least important points get put there.
[00:24:40] Yeah.
[00:24:40] Jason: That rubric that you just described for, just for deciding on the order of photos, I suppose, is. Is a theory that you then test over time. Like, what does the customer think is the most important photo? Maybe you’re right. Maybe you’re wrong. I think probably when you have a listing that you’re trying to tune up, one of the things you would test is, is the photography, order, you know, if it’s good photography, if at face value subpar, then it’s obvious it needs to be replaced.
[00:25:06] But if it’s all good photography, then I think it is an interesting thing to test is like, what is the most appropriate order of these photos? Yeah. So that’s a fun, that’s a fun kind of, you know, serial test or know split test AB test that you can do, I suppose, on your listing with Splitly or whatever.
[00:25:22] But if you’ve
[00:25:23] Michael: got the technology, yeah. I mean, I know you can test the main photos and they will have a massive impact. You can do that within the Amazon system. You can test price and, and photos. Whether you can test the order of photos within the Amazon universe. I don’t know. Is that possible on the Shopify?
[00:25:36] Is that. Available.
[00:25:38] Jason: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You can do all kinds of AB tests on, on Shopify. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:42] Michael: You’ve got a bit more leeway at that. Yeah. Imagine Amazon will start introducing it, but you can always do a sort of primitive version of the test, but you’re right. I mean, to your point, and this is a very valid point.
[00:25:51] Everything is, is a thesis. When you start you, this is the thing like the more you do quality customer research, you really talk to actual customers or at least perspective customers. The, and understand them the better quality your, your hypothesis is going to be. And then yes, you need to test them. And eventually the market will, will tell you what works and what doesn’t.
[00:26:11] Yeah,
[00:26:12] Jason: totally agree. Okay. So, this is a fantastic list. Do you want to summarize the 10 steps, for us?
[00:26:17] Michael: Yep. Sure. So first thing, first and foremost, foundation, customer avatar, the PPP, the person problems, psychological drivers, as you say, you can create a name, little narrative about them. If you’re not into imaginative stuff, talk to actual real people.
[00:26:30] If you possibly can. Number two comparison with your competition or better think about what alternatives your customer may have, that aren’t direct competitors. Number three, clarify the benefits, reasons why people should buy, or what result will you get from using a product and number four, then link.
[00:26:43] You’ll features with the benefits, that part of your product that delivers that result. Number five, then gather examples of, of images from competitors and related brands. Also look at brands, your ideal customer buys, maybe they love buying BMWs or, or Mercedes-Benz or whatever Bennett is, in which case, look at those photography and get sort of the look and feel of that.
[00:27:02] Products, number six, really clear, brief for your photographer. I would do this in-house and clarify it before you even hire a photographer. So you don’t give them really unclear instructions. Number seven, revising, clarify your shot list. Four types of image on white main images, detailed product feature shots, infographics, and lifestyle, or editorial shots, and allow for the cost of hiring a model.
[00:27:25] It’s normally worth it in my experience, but you’ve got to look at your budget. Number eight, working with the photographer. Absolutely great makes you find somebody great, create a good relationship with them. Treat them well. Preferably somebody with very specific relevance in their experience. And when you’re, when you’re creating the subset of that, when you’re creating the contract with them, make sure you allow for two rounds of revisions.
[00:27:47] Otherwise they may feel like they’ve delivered the raw shots and they’re done, which is not good. Number nine. Ad punchy short text where appropriate. So that’s benefit driven. And number 10 makes you think about the order of photos. And as you say, it’s a thesis and in the end, the market will tell you, and you can best check that through split testing.
[00:28:05] Jason: That is fantastic. I love it, man. This is, I think really, really helpful for those who are struggling with photography and those who are OCD about it and want to tune up their process even more. So, I, I love this topic and I just challenge everybody to obsess over your photography.
[00:28:23] Obsess over, you know, how you’re presenting your products, and you’ll receive a tremendous response and impact. And, you know, I guess I just in summation, I’ll just say this, it continues to amaze me. How. People can start from scratch and scale incredibly quickly on e-commerce platforms today. I mean, it will literally have these examples where people are scaling to billion dollar brands and, you know, on the back of, e-commerce efforts really quickly.
[00:28:53] And one of the things that you see is that they just crush it with their photography. Their image marketing is on point and that of course carries into their work on Instagram and. Pinterest and tick-tock and Facebook and all, you know, all the social media platforms and, and, you know, they’re beautiful email marketing and on and on.
[00:29:11] And so I think this is a core trade skill for every e-commerce operation, whether you’re at your kitchen table right now, or whether you’re a billion dollar company. And this is a great process to go through, to get there.
[00:29:21] Michael: Yeah, absolutely agree with that.
[00:29:22] Jason: All right, man, as always, it’s an honor appreciate the, the topic on this one.
[00:29:26] I’ll just challenge everybody. Who’s listening to feel free to subscribe to us. I just looked in, Spotify, my podcast player of choice. And if you type in e-commerce with a dash between the E and the C, where number one, some guy named Andrew Ferris is number two. E-commerce fuel is number three. And it goes on from there.
[00:29:45] I guess we did. Cause we were like all the time, but if you don’t use Spotify, that’s cool. But if you like apple podcast player, go check us out there. W whatever podcast, player of choice you, listen to be sure to check us out, subscribe, like, leave us a review. If you can. All of those fun things.
[00:30:02] It’s an honor to be able to serve the community and, to be able to put out the show and thanks, Michael again for a great conversation.
[00:30:08]