The E-commerce Leader

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[00:00:30] Michael: Jason is in the middle of managing a five day challenge for e-commerce sellers right now. And he’s got 400 participants in this episode, we’re going to find out how it’s going. Some of the behind the scenes lessons he’s learned and even huge mistakes as well and how he’s recovering from them. So I think anyone who’s wanting to develop that Amazon business may be interested in the content of the challenge, but also anyone who’s thinking of running a live event, whether you’re selling products or training, we’ve talked quite a lot about that as well.
[00:00:54] So the stream of income that a lot of people ignore should be ready to learn plenty from Jason’s experiences this week. So I was like good and bad. Jason, so ready to reveal.
[00:01:03] Jason: I’m ready to reveal all it has been, good and bad. I mean, there’s always lessons learned anytime you do any, you know, real marketing work in the, in the real world of competitive, you know, communications and, and, put stuff out there for people and you learn what works and what doesn’t work and get feedback.
[00:01:18] So, yeah, we’re right in the middle of it. We, we have 400 people. Happily participating in a group it’s been fantastic. I’m really very high energy and people are ready to learn. They’re showing up, we have daily challenges, it’s a five day challenge. And, so there’s some interest in, in that element of the duration of it.
[00:01:38] And, we, we’ve got a, we’ve got a nice set of bonuses and people are. Really pumped to be a part of it. And, we, we’ve got a lot of pricing decisions. We made content decisions we made. And so I think there’s a conversation here to be had about sort of what, what we’ve learned in it what’s happening and what other people can take away.
[00:01:55] If they to do a challenge type event or virtual online event for their communities or for the cuts. Yeah.
[00:02:01] Michael: Yeah. And it seems quite a growing trend to do it. I noticed that you did a 30 day challenge recently, but the first question is the obvious one, which is what are you actually teaching about, or what’s being taught at this.
[00:02:11] And are you doing the teaching? So the two questions. Yeah.
[00:02:14] Jason: I’m not doing the teaching, so I’m sorta just a behind the scenes, coordinator. Bit of the host and the first kickoff session. But Kyle and I are serving in that role, primarily my business partner on our e-commerce consulting and coaching work.
[00:02:27] The topic of the challenge is called the Replens challenge. It’s really done. We’re doing these in support of our software that we, we have, we, we have, a software app that’s called legendary sourcing app. We’re rebranding it, but it’s, it’s basically the best, highest rated. Sourcing app or scanning app in the iOS app store and, highest reviewed.
[00:02:49] And, it works really well for people who do a retail arbitrage. So you walk into a store, you scan items and you see what they sell for on Amazon. And you can really geek out over a lot of data points and figure out whether you should purchase those items for reselling on Amazon. So that’s really the, uh, uh, the gist of it.
[00:03:05] That’s the community it’s for. And then the phrase Replens is this concept that our. Business partner, Danny stock came up with where you look for replenishable items, not just one-off clearance sales, that you can never find again, type thing, but you look for items that you can literally go back every week and buy more of and just continuously buy them, send them an Amazon, buy them, send them into Amazon.
[00:03:29] So that whole replenishable strategy is sort of the cornerstone of his team. Yeah. Yeah, so it’s a, it’s a fun topic. Our arbitragers are never, it’s never something I’ve done full time or anything like that. Obviously I know the system and I’ve done it, but, when we bought the software from Danny, we bought with it, this community.
[00:03:47] Of people who were obviously in this business model. And so we’ve rallied around it and we love it. It’s actually really, really fun to serve them as a group to learn how they do their thing and what excites them. And, Danny’s in a lot of ways sort of their chief mentor and he wouldn’t call himself a guru, but he’s really piled up pioneered a lot of the content.
[00:04:08] And, so yeah, so that’s kind of the gist of it. Interesting.
[00:04:11] Michael: So a couple of things that strike me just, first of all, retail, I’ve charged. One of the big things about it is obviously it’s hard to build momentum when you go, when you have the place, you, you built your wealth from changes all the time.
[00:04:24] And so I like that. Danny’s kind of dealing with that sort of Achilles heel. What if it can be sales of a whole business model? And it’s interesting to me that actually a lot of more sophisticated people are actually involved in arbitrize than I’d given it credit for. I know you, and I’ve had conversations on the back of that, but what interests me is this sort of metallurgy.
[00:04:39] So about the events that you’re hosting an event for something which, you know, as you’ve said, and I know that you don’t really have much of a background in, but you’re doing it via other people. And you’ve also another thing you’ve bought a company and sort of leveraging the community that’s attached to that.
[00:04:55] Like I just ran with that. So tell me a bit about that sort of strategy, because that sounds quite an advanced strategy in some way.
[00:05:00] Jason: Well, there’s two parts, I suppose, doing events. Have expert presenters is one bit, you know, and, and you’re right, this is this the con this is a content rich event, actually.
[00:05:10] That was part of our sort of mistakes, I think in sort of the positioning of marketing. But let me just mention kind of the instructional content. We have people who are seven figure sellers, annualized, you know, revenue. Through retail, arbitrage teaching specifically what they do. Kate Chaddick has a, presentation she’ll do actually hers is up tomorrow called secrets of a seven figure replen seller.
[00:05:33] We had Jerry Kagel who spoke yesterday morning all about sourcing it. Stores, which are very popular stores in the U S and seven-figure seller, and he breaks down exactly what he does, the six steps that he uses to source it, target the pros and cons rules issues, you know, the whole thing. And, so the, so I love that stuff.
[00:05:50] I was a university marketer for four years prior to going full time in e-commerce, you know, with my wife. So I’m comfortable marketing other people’s expertise. And so this kind of feels like that a little bit. They don’t have PhDs, but they’re certainly experts they have, they have is in the school of hard knocks.
[00:06:10] And so I love that element of it. And, oh, and the software company. Yeah. That was your second question. Yeah, we bought, we bought a software company that had an email list associated with it and a community of users. And we did it intentionally because for us, it is an essence. If you think of our product and customer funnel, I suppose you could say, this is more top of the funnel for us.
[00:06:32] We, we built our business on one-on-one conversations with six and seven figure. You know, e-commerce sellers. And a lot of people who are in arbitrage are new. They’re just, they’re just starting out. They would never be coaching clients with us. And we knew that. And so, you know, we’re constructing our own business.
[00:06:48] Kyle and I are with our own funnel, with our own community of, of, customers that go from entry level buyers who are comfortable with spending $5 to learn something, all the way up to people who were. Well spending a lot of money with us. And so this fits into that really, really nicely.
[00:07:04] Michael: I like that.
[00:07:05] You, so you’ve basically got a sort of big stack of funnels that you’re developing by building one business on top of an existing business, which I think is quite sophisticated. I’d not many people I’ve seen that, that are doing that. And I know one heck of a lot of people in there in the space of e-commerce advising and consulting and SAS, but you combine SAS and consulting in a way that I’m not sure.
[00:07:26] Not frequently. So that’s interesting. So what, what made you think of doing that in the first place? Is it something you’ve seen other people doing? Was it just chance it
[00:07:32] sort
[00:07:32] Jason: of came up? It was a chance and I guess reflection, you know, we’ve really liked what we do, Kyle and I love the conversation.
[00:07:40] Brand owners and e-commerce sellers that the one-on-one coaching stuff. And, it’s just a blast, but it is not scalable. I mean, we have a finite amount of time, weekly that we’re dedicated to, doing our one-on-one conversations. And so for the first three years, you know, at first you’re like, how do I get one-on-one coaching clients?
[00:07:56] And that was the first hurdle. But after that, we were like, dang, We’ve got, we’ve got our, you know, pipeline filled in terms of conversations. We’ve run out of time. So then what you do, of course, naturally, as you escalate your cost, your pricing. So you, you know, we doubled our pricing, then we’ve doubled it again.
[00:08:13] It’s very expensive to have a conversation with us now, which we’re grateful for thankful for, but it’s still not scalable. And so, you know, we kind of over the last year, it came to the realization that if we want to really see. This is a business. It’s not going to be a consultancy. There are some consultancies that, you know, get into the, you know, the, the nine-figure range or whatever, but, but you know, that’s a, that’s a tough road to hoe.
[00:08:40] So, so we did two things. We started doing small groups, mastermind groups, and, we had the opportunity serendipitously to. By the software company, from Danny and it’s for software tools and they’re all focused on Amazon selling, you know, function and functionality. And, and so it, we realized that it would give us sort of a funnel structure where we could have people who we were, we grow with over time.
[00:09:02] Yeah, e-commerce, you know, 1 0 1 or they start on arbitrage and we have a good time helping them. We give them the tools and the training, and, it is, you know, software as a subscription service, a SAS, you know, tool. And so there’s, there’s power and, and energy in that by itself as a business model.
[00:09:19] But it also gives us the opportunity to be in conversation with people who might be in interested in being a small group or eventually coaching clients. So the, the software. Also unlock the opportunity for us to say to ourselves, would we ever want to take venture funding and go down the path of Silicon valley style growth, you know, take angel money or seed money or whatever.
[00:09:40] And so we’re, we’re positioning ourselves to do that eventually where we will, scale. We think we’re going to bootstrap in our current formation, and continue to do that for a while. But we are entertaining the idea. Eventually taking on investor money and on the back of a SAS tools, subscription tool, there’s a lot of logic there and end investors.
[00:09:59] Candidly, just like that as an investment, thesis. So there you have it, that’s kind of the behind the scenes, what we’re doing very,
[00:10:05] Michael: very interesting. A couple of reflections. I think, first of all, yes. Theoretically, you could scale consultancy, but I think it’s very hard to do because, you’re going to have to have a hiring policy then to make people who are good enough to be coaches.
[00:10:18] I can only imagine from the many, many Amazon coaches that I know that in that. Particular space that they’re just going to go off and set their own thing up after five seconds. Right. So you’re going to breach your competition, right? And so I could see why, if I were looking to invest in the business, which is always a hint for you as well, right?
[00:10:32] You’re looking at it with two led to two lenses. The operation side for you is it’s, it’s more scalable to grow a community and let them grow with you. So a certain percentage. We’ll transition from making their first 10,000 to make it, you know, the bigger and bigger months. And then the other thing is the scalability of SaaS as a sort of, I guess, is, is that more like the sort of front end?
[00:10:53] How does the software as a subscription, some setting sort of funnel structure. Yeah. We’re
[00:10:59] Jason: positioning that way, hopefully, you know, we’re rebranding it. And we’re in the midst of that it’s taken much longer and a lot more money than we expected, but it’s all good. And, so, but it’s been, it’s been awesome.
[00:11:09] And so, yeah, it, it lives out there on the app store and the Google play store and people find it organically. But then also we do our own, you know, marketing. Advertising, email marketing, et cetera, et cetera, events like this, to find, and encourage people to discover it. So we it’s both end. And it’s kind of interesting because we have people who are users of the software who are in the challenge and they, they don’t need help with the software because they haven’t already know it.
[00:11:33] Then we have people who joined the challenge and they’re like, what is this now? What do I get a 30 day free trial to, and we have remedial training or, you know, entry-level training for them to. Set up on the software and that kind of thing. And we give them a lengthy free trial. They can take it or leave it, try it out, see if they like it or not.
[00:11:48] And we talk openly about the alternatives that are out there. And, and so once, and once you’re in the industry, you kind of know that three or four tools that are available to you. And we’re one of, one of those.
[00:11:59] Michael: Yeah, that’s nice. So there’s a nice synergy between the different parts of your business that you’re sort of structuring.
[00:12:03] I’m very, very interested. I think it’s very sophisticated work. So talking more about the event itself, because you promised that we’d, you know, reveal a few bit of dirt and stuff behind the scenes lessons learned and mistakes and how you’ve recovered most importantly, how you’ve recovered from it.
[00:12:18] So it sounds like it’s generally a really positive event. I was part of your 30 day challenge. When the first question, by the way, I’ve just got asked quickly. A 30 day challenge last time, five day challenge this time. Why, why the difference?
[00:12:30] Jason: Because 30 days is way too long. Yeah. We might
[00:12:33] Michael: be
[00:12:37] looking back at the lessons learned from the 30 day challenge that you’re implementing in the five day challenge. Would you say that’s the biggest one?
[00:12:42] Jason: Well, yeah, I mean the 30 day challenge was just a quiet. It was quite a journey. It’s funny. I talked to Chris green, our friend the other day, and he we’d mentioned this challenge five day duration period.
[00:12:54] And he said, man, I saw you guys do that 30 day. And I thought you all are crazy. But, so clearly we shifted to a faster, duration. Is it too fast? I don’t know. But the training, the specific training that we’re giving people, they, you know, are in the first five days, but then we’ll have the Facebook group that they’re a part of open to them for 30 days.
[00:13:13] So, so in that corresponds with the free trial of the software, and so we just kind of frontline. The specific training sessions and then, you know, they can, and, and we’re doing specific challenges every day and the challenges are fun and easy, you know, like take a picture in front of yourself, take a selfie in front of Walmart or target, or in front of the, you know, in front of your computer, looking at the Walmart, or target or dollar store websites or whatever.
[00:13:36] And, you know, just little challenges like that to encourage people, to take action, learn what we’re talking about, jump in and, and that kind of thing. So. Yeah, that the duration thing is something we’re, we’re experimenting with, certainly. Yeah. For what
[00:13:49] Michael: it’s worth. I mean, cause I was a participant in the 30 day challenge.
[00:13:52] I was checking out, you know, the other speakers, you have some very, very good people like Chris green, I know have interviewed a couple of times of the podcast and with different business models time. So he’s a good business thinker and lots of fun and very well known. And the other community obviously kind of, I believe term the term retail arbitrage, although they might say that before there’s some trademark.
[00:14:12] Jason: Probably fair to say. He kind of, let’s just say he popularized the concept of retail arbitrage. E-commerce retail arbitrage.
[00:14:19] Michael: Absolutely. So, yeah, but what struck me was, wow, there’s so much that interests me here. And there were two or three specific things around the Kindle publishing model, but it was kind of a bit overwhelming.
[00:14:28] So for what it’s worth, I think cutting down the amounts and, and up in the sort of engagement seems like. Learning for me personally, and as somebody who’s kind of, bi-curious about, various different business models, you know, and there’s the shiny object syndrome thing going for me. Sure. But so tell me, so let’s plunge into the things that are working, the things that, you know, lessons learned, AK things that haven’t worked quite as you planned, what would you say are the things?
[00:14:52] Jason: Well, the biggest mistake I think there too is kind of a big mistake. And then the derivative outcome of the big mistake, the big mistake was we, we. Just called this, the Replens challenge five day, you know, the five day Replens challenge, many people who went through our Replens challenge in April. So we’re as we record this it’s September right now, but we, you know, the first one, the 30 day one was in April.
[00:15:15] I think a lot of people just said, well, that’s a replay. I don’t, I already did it. You know, I’m, I already participated, so I don’t need to. So we immediately heard that from people like, oh, is this just the same stuff? As if to say, I’m not going to participate. And we were like, oh my gosh, what did we just do?
[00:15:31] Dang it. So, so we spent literally 10 days emailing our list and talking to people about how this is unique and different and original and all new training and not the same exact thing. And, but we really. We did a kind of a branding photo there. We did it that way because that’s what Russell Brunson does.
[00:15:49] And he’s the expert on all things, you know, click funnels, but, you know, he’ll do the same thing. Like, you know, branding wise over and over every year. Well, we did it three months apart or four months apart, whatever it is. And so that was the first sort of not resistance, but just confusion, in the mind of our audiences.
[00:16:07] The second thing that I think was the derivative outcome of that was. Yeah. We we undersold, or we didn’t clarify with the new training, the new teaching, the new content, and we should have led with, we got to go over doing like five new things in five days, we could have picked any one of them and branded it, the whole thing on just that topic.
[00:16:27] Like, so for example, sourcing at the dollar general stores. So we’re seeing at Walgreens sourcing at targets or seeing at Walmart, any one of those could have been a challenge. We also threw in as a bonus Danny’s second edition, revised and expanded. That could have been that the topic. So our lack of our branding mistake led to then a subsequent lack of focus, mistake that, you know, it is what it is, but it just makes you, as you do these things, you realize, oh, dang, that could have been done a lot better.
[00:16:57] So that, that was sort of the first, kind of obvious mistakes we made. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:01] Michael: It’s interesting, I mean the common theme and a heck of a lot of. Branding and marketing mistakes generally, I suppose, isn’t it, it’s, it’s easy to pick up on in somebody else’s business, which is why, you know, you can’t see the wood for your trees, you know, business sometimes when you’ve got a coach and you look at it from an outside perspective, I’m sure that if somebody brought this to you, you would have said the same thing to the immediate, because you’re very, very smart on this stuff, but it’s easier to do that.
[00:17:22] I mean, I guess. It’s, you know, I think that’s copying people successfully sometimes leads the worst mistakes. Cause you kind of pan you park your critical thinking a bit. I’m not saying that’s necessarily what happened here, but I suppose it’s such a big name. It seems like, oh, he walks on water. So if we do the same, we’re going to do the same, but of course there might be nuances.
[00:17:39] Like he’s got. hundreds of thousands of users. So you can show through the ones that didn’t send it last year. And in your case, you’ve got a smaller community you wanted to get back engaged. So that’s, that’s an interesting reflection. And then I guess the other thing is, as you said, like you can almost pick one thing and that’s what you sale, right.
[00:17:54] And it’s actually easier to sell one thing really well. 10 different things that are unclear and we’ve all done it. I do it all the time with my website. It’s a mess. I sympathize, I certainly know better, but it’s always a
[00:18:05] Jason: good one, right? It is. And it’s really a couple of psychological underpinnings there that are important for people to remember.
[00:18:11] And that is the paradox of choice kicks in. If you give people 2, 3, 4 things to focus on, they will become paralyzed. And, the, the cliche phrase that people always use is that a confused mind always says no, and, or go slow. And, that that’s true in any, you know, selling, you know, kind of situation.
[00:18:30] You just don’t want to distract people with, you know, you don’t want to confuse people. And so we, we as marketers or entrepreneurial marketers tend to want to pile on, but wait, there’s more, you know, and that’s, that’s not why it’s frequently. So.
[00:18:48] Michael: There’s a really great, there’s a good coach that I’ve worked with, talking more he’s this Australian delightfully, the completely opposite of you.
[00:18:54] He swears all the time and he’s like very blunt in that Australian way, which you’d love or hate. But one of the things he says, there’s great Porsche, tagline from, I don’t know, nineties or Porsche, whatever you call it in America. For speed. Add light. In other words, what you strip down actually enables people to get faster and feel better about it.
[00:19:09] So in, they used to be that thing called the third factor wasn’t it went back in the day, it had information product. So they started on into your doorstep from the, the, the postman or the mailman. And it would have like 15 different, you know, DVDs or even videos back in the day. I have lots of books and I guess there was something to be said for going the opposite way.
[00:19:28] Isn’t
[00:19:28] Jason: there. True. Yeah. No, I think that’s, you, you want to give. The simple yes. To something in their minds. And I guess to apply his concept to what we’re talking about, for speed, add lightness. So that means singular eyes, your topic, and the speed of decision will be a very quick yes or a very quick.
[00:19:49] Do you want to learn about this? Yes or no? Yeah. And that’s almost copy. That’s like, that’s the copywriting. If price is not an issue, then, then it’s just about, do you want to learn this? Yes or no? So
[00:20:00] Michael: in a way also that can be an issue. Cause I know that your challenge is $5 to enter and you’ve got the copy of the book and the five day challenge.
[00:20:06] I mean, Viciously, why is it so cheap? You know, and, you know, therefore they can pitch me into buying timesharing in a Cayman. That’s all, what happened? The things that people have experienced over the decades. So, yeah, that’s an interesting one as well. Isn’t it? But the
[00:20:20] Jason: price point was another decision that we may upon reflection think otherwise of in the future.
[00:20:26] Yeah, it was a five day, $5 challenge. And, why we did that, was it because we weren’t sure we wanted to do a free trial. You know, so having, they call the penny gap in economic terms, which is if you charge free, you get, let’s just say a hundred thousand people who do something, but if you charge a penny, you get like, you know, a thousand people, like it’s just a drastic difference in terms of the participation and engagement, but the quality of the engaged audience, if you charge a little bit of something, is.
[00:20:55] Infinitely better. And so it was sort of a, you know, I mean, other people call these things, different teams, same things, but Ryan Deiss calls it a trip wire, you know, pricing, point. So just enough to make people think like, oh, okay, they’re charging for this, but you’re right. It’s so low. It’s almost like a.
[00:21:14] What’s the catch. And there honestly is no catch people got $5 product
[00:21:21] Michael: because I was writing to my, email, follow her saying, I’ve got to get this out. I mean, I know that Jason and Kyle are great guys and do really good training. And I saw that the last one pretty up close. I thought this is going to be good.
[00:21:32] I’m not even, I was thinking when I was writing the emails about it and. $5. I’m like, yeah, I know these guys. They’re not going to have you, Sally. When I felt the need, rightly or wrongly to say, relax, they’re not going to try and sell you a timeshare apartment because people have experienced that a lot, I guess in the past, in this industry, that’s a problem, isn’t it?
[00:21:49] It is.
[00:21:49] Jason: And actually that’s, you know, Are honored to be able to, you know, to, to do good events or we feel like we’re good at pulling them together. In fact, it was really cool. We, one of the first days challenge was, in this event was just turn on your camera, do a live into the group and tell us who you are, where you’re from and, you know, what you do type thing.
[00:22:08] And. It was very flattering that one of the participants said, I participated in all three of, Jason and Kyle’s challenges this year. And they’re always great. And, you know, so in a way we, we, you know, we want to be known for being good at content, marketers, and, and really delivering, not having stuff.
[00:22:25] Just be, you know, just a. Yeah. And a teaser or anything like that. So, yeah, so, but the, but there’s, there’s a believability price point too. And it would probably would have been much wiser for us to charge $97 or $49 or 1 99. And just say what we were doing and people would have said, oh, that’s not that much money.
[00:22:44] This sounds amazing. I’m going to do it. But nonetheless, so here we are and 400 people did it. And just, you know, as, as, you know, full disclosure, click funnels as a tool. Has an upsell system. So we did have lifetime access. We have VIP group, so, people could choose those higher price point entry, options.
[00:23:00] But they didn’t have to, you know, and so that’s how it works.
[00:23:03] Wrapup: Hey folks. Thank you so much for listening to the e-commerce leader. Once again. So today we’ve been talking kind of Metta. We’ve been talking about an event, which is about e-commerce and you may be in your mind dismissing this already. If you’re not in the information marketing space, as irrelevant to you, I would urge you to do, as Jason says that we discussed later.
[00:23:23] You consider whether this business model actually could work really, really well for you. It’s going to depend on the type of products you have, but if you’ve got a product where there’s a potential for people to sort of professionalize what they do, for example, home baking or something like that, some people do it as a hobby.
[00:23:37] Some people actually tried to turn it into a job or something like that. That has a lot in common. If you think about it with the type of person that Jason’s been targeting along with Carl Jaime’s business partner. The coaching business, that is getting into online arbitrage and retail arbitrage.
[00:23:51] Again, they don’t have a business yet, but they’re wanting to create one. I would argue that’s a true sweet spot, but it’s not limited to that. So this is a skillset that I think could serve a lot of people. Well, that aren’t just in the information. Industry that said obviously for infonomics and marketing, this is a proven model now, and Jace has done this for the third time.
[00:24:10] So I think there were some fascinating insights from today. I think one thing that strikes me is simply the model of being the host, but not being the expert, which is obviously worked very, very well. I mean, given that Jason is definitely not a retail arbitrage or even an Amazon person really in, by, by his nature and, and focus.
[00:24:26] So getting trusted guests in is obviously one clue as one way to do this. And buying a company with a ready-made community also is a very interesting thing to me. I think it’s actually thinking well outside the usual box, but, it sort of starts to blur the lines between SAS community and. And other business models, which I argue could include physical products as well.
[00:24:47] And then the scalability question of whatever business you’re in, how do you scale it? There’s always a perennial question when we’ve addressed quite a lot. Not as frequently recently, but it’s an important one to think about. So that plus the lessons learned, I think are some, important lessons, some of which apply to any type of business model, some of which would be specific to this challenge idea, but I would urge you not to dismiss things out of hand.
[00:25:08] Without considering whether if actually nobody in your industry is doing it, could it be a massive competitive advantage? And the only way you can really know is to be brave as Jason and Kyle have put it out there, learn from my mistakes. And I really love that statement. That’s to establish don’t do anything once I, if you don’t do things more than once, you’re never going to get to hone your skills sets and learn what works.
[00:25:31] For example, with Facebook ads, for them so far, haven’t been great, but by chipping away at it, you will. You know, learn what works for you and your industry and your business. So I think a very interesting, rather different episode. I hope you agree if you do, then don’t forget to get, show us the love. In one of two ways, you can either subscribe to the show, which means that you get this content delivered to you fresh.
[00:25:53] I think we were at four episodes a week coming out now, someone bite-size chunks, some like this a bit longer. And then also don’t forget to leave us a review. If you would, on the apple podcast system, guests give us a rating. Even if you don’t want to write anything about it. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 stars. You could just give us a quick rating and take you 20 seconds and we’d be enormously grateful for it.
[00:26:13] Thank you so much for listening to the show.
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