The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Michael: You need to be very trusting to be that vulnerable because people are much more embarrassed about their profit than they are about revenue and, and kind of rightly so. which is why I think the culture that we developed in just over time, it’s a bit like weeding a garden. It’s not just a formula. It is a valuable thing
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[00:01:22] Michael: So Jason, your profit habits workshop has just ended on now. You’ve got some instinct lessons to learn for every e-commerce operator and, insights from real life, or sometimes not so pretty. And there’s a lot of stuff to work through, but on the other hand, they’re real. And I think that’s going to be very, very important.
[00:01:36] So tell me more, what have you been learning with your, with your e-commerce leaders in the profit habits
[00:01:42] Jason: work? Yeah, the workshop happened this just last week, Monday and Tuesday. And then we had a Wednesday, Thursday special meetings for VIP’s. It was a fantastic event. We had a great time, a good group of people who were all focused on trying to get clarity and insight into the profit in their business profitability.
[00:02:01] And, we really, really, I think found some interesting key insights together, you know, Zack Martin is a CPA and previous to becoming an e-commerce seller in his own, right. He was a mergers and acquisitions consultant specialist and valuation specialist as a CPA. So he did a ton of, of, work in that regard prior to becoming a, you know, e-commerce operator.
[00:02:23] And so he was co-teaching and Kyle and I, taught sessions as well. And so we learned a ton from him. And then of course you learn from the people in the community as well when people, you know, ask questions or when they, speak into the topics, you really start to see what’s bubbling up and, you know, kind of what’s happening in the mind of e-commerce operators as it relates to profitability.
[00:02:45] And so that to me was really exciting. I made it a little bit. And, you know, I suggested you and I worked through today of just those lessons and insights, sort of the high level stuff. This won’t be technical or anything like that. Today we just wanted to talk about sort of the big picture, ideas that we think people can grapple with and, and bolt into their business quickly and efficiently for increasing profitability,
[00:03:05] Michael: you know, great bolts into your business quickly and efficiently increased profitability, or sounds music to my ears.
[00:03:11] That sounds good. So what’s your first big takeaway then I know you and I discussing about this and, and really realizing between us this isn’t really kind of a technical thing. Is it that,
[00:03:21] Jason: well, the first surprise for me was when we started doing the marketing for this on, on Facebook, we not only didn’t find success in Facebook, we found.
[00:03:34] Violent opposition, I would say not violent, but you know what I mean? Like we, we found, we found rhetorical opposition, Facebook. It was amazing to me, like we’d put up an ad and it basically said, learn, you know, the 17 habits that can make your business more profitable profit habits, workshop. And the comments that were came back were so jaded.
[00:03:54] Negative. Yeah. And unkind. I mean, we got literally called, like, these are the three Stooges. These guys probably never made any money in their life. They’re just trying to make money telling you how to make money through. E-commerce like, you know, all of the negative energy that like you could just tell the community at large had been somehow either burned by shiny objects of the past, or maybe they just put us into this as get rich quick, content.
[00:04:22] So, so the first takeaway to me, it was just fascinating people’s mindset. Like here’s 17 habits that can make you more profitable. You’re a con artist. Nope, I’m pretty sure I’m not, but, that was very interesting to me. So it, it kind of has nothing to do with the workshop content or people. Obviously the people who came to the workshop are positive and upbeat and encouraging.
[00:04:42] We didn’t have any kind of negativity in the shop workshop itself, but that pushback to me, just really spoken to. I guess people’s mindset in terms of this topic and how either wounded, defensive, just, you know, kind of. I, it just was very, very interesting to me. So that’s takeaway is people have a lot of issues, profitability, I guess.
[00:05:08] Yeah. It’s weird
[00:05:09] Michael: that they would profitable would, would create that. I can absolutely understand why people would, you know, shouts about yet another advert, because of course, both of us probably see similar stuff in our Facebook feed, we talked a very 5.5 seconds by somebody selling some form of internet marketing.
[00:05:23] I can understand why people would be jaded about that, but they don’t normally use word profit. They use things like income or revenue or sales, or even revenues have grown up with money normally or cash and, nothing against the word revenue or cash or money, but they’re fairly crude words. Whereas profit already to me.
[00:05:41] We’re talking about something, who’s got a bit more of a grownup financial approach. So that’s odd that it should be some reaction. I don’t know. Maybe that’s, there’s just lumping it all in together into they’re getting rich quick online kind of marketing. Maybe it’s just Facebook.
[00:05:55] Jason: Well, yeah, maybe. I mean, I, and I didn’t really mind that people spoke their mind.
[00:05:59] I mean, I don’t like to be called one of the three Stooges, although I did love that show growing up as a kid. Do you know that show? And then,
[00:06:08] okay, come on. You have to watch YouTube. Three Stooges episodes are hilarious, but they were just comedy group. So I didn’t mind that the pushback per se, but what did unlock to me was just that it was just so obvious that people have bad psychology around this stuff where they are just. Aggressively, you know, fighting back against this, phrasing or words or ideas on untrusting maybe.
[00:06:33] And fair enough. I mean, you know, like if people didn’t know us and didn’t, know that we had run our own e-commerce operations and had seen our, I guess, you know, bone a few days, as I say in resume building, I mean, our qualifications, fair enough, but, but I think it reveals a basic nature in our mind is that we’re either, usually all in on something.
[00:06:55] Like we buy the shiny object and we sink our mouth into the hook of the shiny hook of the lure of like, you know, get rich or whatever, if that’s the. Or violently opposed sometimes. I mean, and I guess in a way that’s, it’s better to have a super negative pushback because at least it’s a polarizing message.
[00:07:16] But to me, this is a takeaway and, and it’s, it speaks to all of us like, when it comes to the topic of becoming more profitable, managing our finances and our business, really understanding what’s happening at the, at the profit level finance level, do we bring our own mental, baggage to it?
[00:07:32] Presuppositions negativity, resistance. Do we avoid it? Like the plague? And then once we’re confronted with it, we’re like, screw you. I don’t want to hear anything about this. You know? I don’t know. I mean, that was to me very interesting. So you’re muted.
[00:07:44] Michael: Pressing too many keys here. Yeah. I guess, yeah, I, I wonder whether it’s a Facebook thing or an advertising thing more than it is a profits thing, but I, it may be both. It may be that people have these negative connotations with it, so, oh, so that was the first, public, pushback and the three Stooges, you know, your, your next role on the internet, it seems, by, by popular demand.
[00:08:02] What’s the second insight then? I mean, what, what about the people who are actually on the workshop? What did, what are their feelings around profits? I
[00:08:09] Jason: think one of the, yeah, one of the sentiments people, you, you could quickly appreciate, and Zach really, you know, spoken to this immediately. I mean, he, he said in one of his presentations, I think he’s done over 3000 corporate tax returns.
[00:08:24] And his first commentary was, if it’s confusing, it’s not helpful. And many people are confused. Just the tools and the sorting mechanisms for information related to this topic. And that’s one of the first big barriers is just confusion. And w w you know, a confused mind always says, no, or go slow. And so I think that was one of the first things that, you know, he works through and he has a super clean, e-commerce P and L a profit and loss statement that he is like a one pager that has been refined over years from his consulting practice in his own company now.
[00:08:58] And it’s his whole thing with it is it has to be simple, and it has to be very clear and straightforward, or, you know, you’ll just, you’ll lose people. And he’s learned that the hard way through, you know, being consultant or whatever, but I think that’s true for all of us. This can be so. Just, you know, terms and there’s so many terms, there’s so many ideas, there’s so many little nuances and back alleys of finance and little cul-de-sacs of thinking and logic and decision-making that it can become very overwhelming.
[00:09:28] And I think that’s probably one of the big challenges with people getting really good at this is just the, the overwhelm that is associated with the topic. Yeah. And I think that’s a, that’s something for people that work.
[00:09:40] Michael: Yeah. I think a lot of life comes down to, the 80 20, the 80 20. So in other words, the trouble is I can’t come home who said this, but yet it’s probably an American cause it’s kind of got a Dan at home simplified feel, which is, you’ve got to take all the pieces of the jigsaw before you can assemble them.
[00:09:55] And the trouble is when you put all the pieces in place, it was a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle. And I’m going to follow through this metaphor here. My wife’s a big fanatics puzzles, but she enjoys them. A lot of people we’ve got a business and you Chuck all your financial statements on the table, literally they’re on paper or metaphorically.
[00:10:10] If we don’t enjoy it, then what you’ve got is a thousand piece puzzle. That’s complete mess and that’s a depressing moment, isn’t it. But I think a good CPA and a good bookkeeper is going to help you put the picture together. But then also, you know, in order to do that, only certain things matter like edge pieces, motto, and certain colors you can identify.
[00:10:26] So there are certain things that in the end, the matter more than others, there’s some things that can ever be help you. Some things that, that are really going to frustrate you and best left to later. So I guess it comes down to, you know, being willing to get your hands dirty, but also having some help in.
[00:10:40] How do I construct this into a meaningful picture? Because I guess it just strikes me that it’s from denial, which is kind of clear, but it’s black, but it’s at least one color it’s complete darkness. Yeah. And then you’ve got the mess, which is the horrible bit. Most people think accounting is about, but then I think what comes at the other end of it, that many of us get to, and I’m fighting my way through with a series of bookkeepers, but I’m determined to go there because I’ve seen it in the businesses because they’ve gone on to eight figures in eCommerce that, that clarity that they get on the other side, it makes it very much easier now.
[00:11:11] Easier to make good quality business decisions and have some kind of reliability to see if I pull this lever, this does this. And if I do this, this does this and to make quality decisions. So I guess that middle is just messy is my experience. I mean, does that time with what Zach’s have been saying and see.
[00:11:28] I
[00:11:28] Jason: think what you just described reminds me of this, whatever it is, stages of grief, you know, seven stages of grief, whatever, like one like denial, step two, like depression.
[00:11:42] Michael: Yeah. Something like that. You’re right. Because I’ve, I’ve literally, I’ve been at masterminds with some pretty serious e-commerce operators and one guy literally had a nosebleed and it sends out that he’d been up since 4:00 AM trying to get his books.
[00:11:54] Right. And you know, it was literally making physically ill and there that’s not, yeah. That’s unusual stress response maybe, but it was, it was kind of a, a dramatic indication of how some people’s relationships, their books.
[00:12:08] Jason: Yeah. I remember Tim Ferriss in his book, four hour work week talking about stress and youth stress use stress with like an EDU in front of her, something.
[00:12:17] And it, you know, the youth dress or whatever is not, I use term. American English anyway, but the, but the idea is that it’s good stress, it’s stress, this kind of stress, like a workout, you know? And it, it helps you tune things up. And I think a lot of people what their, what their profitability and their in their business books, they’ll go from a denial to a crisis.
[00:12:39] And if they can get things sorted in that crisis period, then they come out of it better, stronger, more organized and more clear on their numbers. And, and sadly, sometimes they don’t come out of it though. And so the better practice would be to get ahead of the curve and get good modeling and insights and concepts that you go after.
[00:12:59] So, You’ve got a vision to build towards. But yeah, I, I totally agree with your kind of, you know, that, those stages of, clarity in terms of management. And then I think that’s important for people to work through and, and understand. Yeah.
[00:13:11] Michael: What are the only thing I would say, and this isn’t necessarily sort of borrowing insight here, but there’s a really great distinction.
[00:13:18] I can even show the book cause I have it so close to my desk because I find it incredibly clarifying and helpful. It’s just financial intelligence for entrepreneurs. I’ve mentioned it before. Sounds like Zach’s been through similar stuff to the guys who read this Joe Knights, Karen Berman suddenly no longer with us, but, he makes a distinction between accounting and finance.
[00:13:33] And I think accounting is the painful bit where you’ve got to put together the chart of accounts and then plug all of your, every single transaction in the journals and make the, you know, make, make the thing balance and reconcile stuff. And I found that horrendous and that’s why I get bookkeepers to do that bit.
[00:13:49] But if you don’t go through this. Then you don’t get the fun bit, which I find fun. Maybe I’m just kind of weird nerd, but I, I’m not an accountant by any stretch of imagination, but I love this, this stuff, which is you get to analyze the bigger picture results, right? And when you’ve got those clean financial statements, you can look at liquidity ratios and other things, and then you can start to really believe as relatively straightforwardly.
[00:14:11] In sense of this quarter, we need to go in negotiate with the suppliers to in, you know, to get better credit because that does this to our cash flow, which means we can grow at this much in the next year. And then it starts to translate into stuff we really, really want, because nobody wants to sit around measuring numbers.
[00:14:25] I mean, that’s, that’s mental hernia, isn’t it. And I think the point is that’s just the stage on the way to getting the clarity and the clarity gives you the insights and then you can take the action. That’s been my experience. I’m S I’m on the journey there. I’m not there, but I’ve certainly seen it with the better clients that I’ve got with the better businesses they have that clarity.
[00:14:42] And they have the confidence that comes with that. Yeah. Anyway, so that’s, that’s some of mindsets. What’s the third, insight, would you say, so they’d take away from, yeah,
[00:14:52] Jason: I think the third big takeaway is that, the journey from a focus on top line sales and revenue to a journey, to a focus on profitability is a process of maturation.
[00:15:05] And it’s a journey. And all of us, when we start, if we’re kitchen table entrepreneurs in the e-commerce world, the first goal is sales. You know, can I sell something and can I sell something at scale? And can I sell something at scale and have money leftover at the end of the process? And that’s the first goal and it rightly should be.
[00:15:24] But as those businesses grow up and mature, the shift becomes increasingly onto, profitability and managing the bottom line, the net profit, and, you know, depending on how hard the grind is, The top number to work sometimes. The bottom number is, or isn’t really clear to people and, you know, cinnamon and I say this all the time in our story, but you know, for the first year, our total sales were $12,000 on eBay and we made no profit this second, but we didn’t even know if we made profit or not.
[00:15:56] But the second year we only made $12,000 in top line sales again, but we were clear that we didn’t make any profit, at least, you know, so we were getting better as we went. And then the third year we tripled top line and we made profit and then we, tripled or doubled again. And over the next few years, we doubled and tripled and doubled and tripled like that for, for several years in a row like that.
[00:16:16] And, but because of the slow two year grind, we actually kind of focused on profit all the way, but other people who just explode with success on Amazon typically, you know, their, their top line number is just a, like a rocket. You know, it just is the question isn’t can you sell it’s? How much can you get to sell?
[00:16:38] Those, those, those businesses, sometimes they’re just like the, the top lines taken off so fast. The bottom line is sort of like what now has like, you know, there’s just less, less clarity. And so I think that journey is what I’ve come to appreciate more and more. And there’s no judgment there. I mean, it’s not like there’s no negative or sentiment or, or judgment about it.
[00:16:59] It’s just a process. And I think people getting clear on that journey being real, for them. And if they’re, if they’re at one point of it, they in there, they’re not clear on their next steps in the journey. They then having a group that speaks into it together in a mastermind or whatever, you know, like, like you run, I think helps people.
[00:17:18] Because then they understand, oh, okay. This is where I’m at in this journey. This isn’t the whole thing. This isn’t what it always works like this isn’t, you know, this isn’t how it will always appear in my mind, or to me, over time, I’ll change my understanding and thinking about what’s happening mathematically and in the books of my business.
[00:17:34] So I think that’s an interesting takeaway.
[00:17:37] Michael: Hmm. I would say a few reflections on that. The first one is let’s talk about the mass one thing first. I think what happens with a peer group is interesting, but there’s sort of cycle because what you’re referencing today is a lot of psychology around.
[00:17:50] Profits and profit measurement, I guess, which is interesting since it’s quite an unusual, people’s about psychology and marketing all the time, but that psychology and profit is probably an under discussed topic. So what I see happening is, is a couple of things. Sometimes people’s businesses do exactly what you said.
[00:18:05] They go on to Amazon, they make a ton of revenue and then realize I have no profit, which is a sad day. Normally by the time they get to the 10 K collective mass Monday, they’re not in that state, but I’ve certainly worked with one, two. I mentioned clients in earliest stage startups. The other one though is sometimes people come to a mass one, they go, oh wow.
[00:18:20] 30% profit margin for my entire business. Like that. The whole thing, not just gross margin is not typical. Okay. I’ve got a really great business and they look around and people with a 5%. Oh, just that is not good. That’s not good. I thought I was struggling, but now I really am. And it gives both of them or get it sort of reality.
[00:18:38] Check one is like, oh, my business is better than average. This was normal. This might be a pretty sellable assets, which the answer is in one case. Yes it is. And one of my, most of my members recently got a very, very nice exit for five times a, which w for, for an Amazon only folks business. Very good.
[00:18:53] Wasn’t even selling the U S so that’s very good multiple these days. And then somebody else is like, oh, 5%. I’m like, yeah, you really have a problem. So it puts things in perspective, sometimes a sad realization, sometimes a happy one. So that’s the first thing, the pig group thing I’m completely sold out for that.
[00:19:08] Jason: To jump on that idea, that the only way that works is if you’re in a conversation with trusted people where you can say, okay, I know my numbers, I’m going to, I’m going to put it on the table. You know, our, our top line revenue is this and our net profit was this as a percentage or whatever. And you’re comfortable sharing that.
[00:19:25] And other people are comfortable sharing it as well. And then you do get those amazing, like aha moments where like, oh, okay. You know, so I think that’s the power of, of the, of the, of it is what is relationship, you know,
[00:19:40] Michael: Agreed trust. You need to be very trusting to be that vulnerable because people are much more embarrassed about their profit than they are about revenue and, and kind of rightly so.
[00:19:48] But no, I agree with that. You have to have the right culture, which is why I think the culture that we developed in just over time, it’s a bit like weeding a garden. It’s not just a formula. It is a valuable thing. Now, the other thing it talks about what you were saying about being very focused on where.
[00:20:02] And then gradually realizing profit I think is, is, is a natural thing when you go through different phases of growth. But what can happen is that the entrepreneur’s mindset is no longer aligned with where their businesses are. So I just happened to have a set of those. I didn’t prepare this, but I just happened to have a set of slides handy from something else I’d been looking at earlier with Marc Andreessen.
[00:20:20] Great, great. Talk about the life of a startup. It can be divided in two parts before product market fit and after product market fit. And he says, before this, you want me to focus obsessively on getting that do whatever’s required. Now he says the extreme things change people rewrite your product, move into different markets.
[00:20:37] fourth rounds of, you know, lots of things. And then would be people be disappointed if your product disappeared. If yes, then you’ve got something. If not, then you haven’t now, you know, without getting down the rabbit hole here, I think it’s put it very simply when you’re in startup phase to see if the product, if there’s a product adoption, the simplest metric, and in some ways the most reliable, is revenue, right?
[00:20:58] Can you sell stuff? I mean, units sold in some ways, but revenue, conversion rates, all of those things. And that’s entirely appropriate to obsess about revenue when you’ve got a new product line or let alone a new business. What I think it comes a drift is when you keep that obsession, when your business is moving into the next phase of growth, when that’s, when you need to track the growth phase, with the, you know, the mindset around profit.
[00:21:21] And I think that’s when sometimes there’s a pain point that can arise in my experience. What do you think that ties in with what you’re
[00:21:26] Jason: saying? Or is this absolutely right? I mean, I think they’re, they’re just key insights and. In every it’s like going over different Hills hill out on a journey, you know, it’s like, oh, this is a valley.
[00:21:39] This feels different than a mountain top. You know, it’s like at every step of the journey, you’re going to see new things like, oh, I’m in a swamp right now. How do you know, how do you get out of a swamp? And that’s kind of what it’s like with your business, profitability and finance at the top level, you know, at the high level.
[00:21:57] And I think you do start to learn those, those concepts the hard way. I mean, we all have to learn them and you won’t learn them by, you know, really just hearing about it. But, but you go through it and you learn it. And I think that’s key. So.
[00:22:13] Michael: Yeah, I think reflection and experience can be valuable.
[00:22:15] Frameworks can help make sense of, emotional experiences. They don’t take away the pain, but they give it meaning. I think, you know, like, you know, that the whole stages of grief thing. So what’s the fourth big takeaway from your profit habits?
[00:22:27] Jason: It ties right into that actually. You know, the, the fourth insight I think is that I believe us as a community e-commerce operators, under-invest are not willing to invest in profit and financial management education.
[00:22:43] The workshop worked great. We had a good community of people doing it. So this isn’t a commentary about this specific workshop, but I would just say as a group, I think there’s just so much denial in, you know, kind of avoidance of these topics because it feels like. And so I think not investing in education is, is a huge mistake now, you know, I’m, I’m a reader, so I like books.
[00:23:04] I know you are too. You’re always referencing books that I always think, oh, I need that book. But there’s, you know, there’s tons of educational content out there. Sometimes you have to fight for, you know, if you get into the academic college book lane or section of the bookstore, you’re going to be bored to death, but you know, there’s other stuff out there.
[00:23:21] Some of it’s real pop culture and commercial, rich dad, poor dad books are obviously the most commercial in the U S on these topics, but there’s other content out there as well. Dave Ramsey’s entree leadership. And, and I think people. Generally, aren’t willing to put in the work at that level sometimes to say what contents available to me and how can I quickly consume it and metabolize it into my business.
[00:23:43] So I’m, and I think that’s a, that’s a key takeaway as well
[00:23:46] Michael: since singer, I guess in the end, the, again, it’s a psychological question, which is a critical one, by the way. So what we associate pleasure and pain with, and unfortunately it’s not a simple path, I guess that a lot of the time pain is the motivation to get into action, but having a vision of where something can go will keep you in action and the truth for most of us, as Donald Miller references in StoryBrand.
[00:24:09] Now this is instinct cause it’s about marketing and that’s the psychology of getting people to buy our stuff. Right. Broadly speaking. But this applies to ourselves, which is that if you tell a story, like so-and-so decided to get. And then he went to the gym. Then people automatically switch office.
[00:24:24] There’s no drama, but secondly, it’s not how people work. People normally have a moment like his girlfriend left him because he was too fat. And then he went, oh my God, I need to go to the gym or whatever, ridiculous story. This is not the best storytelling. You know what I mean? And there’ll be offended if your five is a bad example, but the truth with an entrepreneur is they’re going to do stuff.
[00:24:41] They have an exciting Q4, and I’ve been there with that, you know, first big key for you go, wow, all these sales. And then you look at the numbers and it takes you ages to go through them and it’s painful. And then the even more painful thing is you look at it and go, oh, I actually paid Amazon to do that.
[00:24:53] I didn’t make any profits at all. And then you start, and this is the thing you go in waves, don’t you. But I think once you, the pain you associate with ignorance is greater than the pain you associate with denial. You get into knowledge. And I think, sadly, I wish I could say it was different, but my experience of that and the people I know is there, there are waves of pain and thank God also on the other side of it insight.
[00:25:20] Things happen for them, but I think that’s really how it works with that. I’ve seen, I don’t know if that’s been the same with you and your
[00:25:25] Jason: clients, but sure. And if you put this whole topic into the same category, as, you know, getting in shape or, you know, making your yard look amazing or, you know, anything that you immediately in your mind was like, step one, hard work, like, ah, dang it.
[00:25:42] So here’s the thing about it is that just creates a context in which those who are willing to do the hard work will crush it and succeed and be awesome. And the competitors in your space who were playing around and don’t know their numbers, but, you know, as Warren Buffett wisely said, when the tide goes out, you find out who’s been swimming naked.
[00:26:03] And the reality is good. Times are fun for everybody. Like, yeah, we’re all making money. Bad times are when the smart marketers and the smart finance driven sellers will be like, oh, we got. You know, w we know, we know what’s happening in our business and I, and I’m, so, you know, part of it, to me is a, it’s a opportunity and also sort of a commentary in the, in the industry.
[00:26:25] You know, that, that’s just the reality of it. And I think that creates a context in which, the great operators survive and thrive. And the, the people who were riding a trend or riding a wave or have gotten some success, but really don’t have that solid foundation of financial understanding. They will come to a point in their business where they crater it and it will be them that cratered it.
[00:26:50] And I, and I think that’s the, you know, of course their context in which people get ripped off, or they get, you know, abused by, you know, some kind of, you know, bad, bad, other out external force, but, all things being equal over time, we are responsible for the success of our business financially, and it, it will be the people who really have.
[00:27:09] Head screwed on straight and I’ve spent the time and energy privately, you know, I think it was Muhammad Ali who said champions are made in the gym or something like that. Yeah. That’s the, that’s the sentiment and, and, you know, it’s like, wow, it stinks to have it be in that category of topics. I wish this was super easy, you know, but.
[00:27:28] Wrapup: Hey folks. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the e-commerce leader. So accounting for e-commerce so helpful lessons from the profit habits workshop was our theme today. And it sounds like a lot of this stuff is actually a sort of psychological relationship to numbers and tracking numbers, bookkeeping, accounting, financially, state operating.
[00:27:48] Rather than the technical stuff. And that’s interesting to me because it’s not a very often discussed topic, but actually now I think about my experiences and those, my friends in e-commerce and those of my clients in e-commerce actually, it is quite a sort of emotionally murky topic. And I have to say the flip side of that is that the people who have the best clarity on the numbers also are the people who are growing the fastest and have the biggest businesses.
[00:28:11] So I suppose it’s a bit chicken and egg. I think the jadedness around the topic is something to reflect on. Avoiding this topic of finding it’s confusing and boring. It could be another mentality thing to look at. And the realization that the top line is not the be-all and end-all of actually maturing into profitability is also one of the topics that seems to, you know, come with maturity as a business owner, I guess.
[00:28:35] And so. I guess the question for you is, is a reflection point today, maybe more than action points, which of these things do you think you might be falling into in terms of the mistakes and which of the things do you think you can build on incentive? Good relationships you have to the area of profits and profit measuring and finances in generally.
[00:28:53] If you find today’s show helpful, then of course you can find a ton more content on these kinds of topics at the e-commerce leader.com, which is our main website. And of course under the usual. Podcast players, apple, Google, et cetera, et cetera. And. If you do find this there and you liked the content, then don’t forget to subscribe and join.
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[00:29:30] And if you’re watching any of this on a video channel, then don’t forget to give us a like, or subscribe or love or whatever you can do on that channel as well. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed this topic, we are talking the second half of the insights from the profits work habits workshop in our next core content.
[00:29:48] In the meantime, thank you very much for listening and we wish you becoming the best e-commerce leader you can be..
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