The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Chris: find somebody that, you know, has the answers that you need and offer them money per hour. If you start the conversation by acknowledging that their time is valuable and offering straight, cold, hard cash,
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[00:01:09] Jason: Our conversation today is about manufacturing items yourself as a business owner, different twist. And I think we’ve all got points of view on it. Many of us work with clients and we do coaching and mentoring. Familiar with people who are in this space and we each have our own takes on it personally as well to some degree.
[00:01:30] So let’s jump into it, Kyle, I’m gonna start with you. What’s your hot take on manufacturing items yourself as a business owner, any perspective you can bring to the party.
[00:01:40] Kyle: For sure. I mean, obviously it’s going to widely depend on your product, your niche and your experience, I think in that product or category, but let’s be honest.
[00:01:50] Manufacturing is a completely different business model, then marketing and selling and building a brand, even if you’re selling it on a marketplace. Right. So you have to prepare for the fact that you are launching. Aligned, even though it is providing business value potentially to your business overall, it is completely separate business model and you’re going to have to navigate that and, and it’s going to be capital intensive as well.
[00:02:20] So you just gotta know what it’s going to be like. I love the idea of it. I love the thought of it. Looking into a little bit myself over the last few years, it’s definitely something that’s on the radar. But I’m not quite personally ready to pull the trigger on it myself. So
[00:02:37] Jason: talk to us a little bit about that.
[00:02:38] You’ve got your items made in China currently, but you’ve, you’re tempted by the idea of doing some manufacturing yourself, huh?
[00:02:46] Kyle: Yeah. And if I did it, I, you know, I’ve, I’ve actually, we actually met with some guy who was big, so I’m in the art supply. We do a lot when you notebooks. Right. So, Paperspace.
[00:02:57] Doing paper primarily. And I talked to, we talked to this guy who was an expert in paper manufacturing, met him and we talked for a couple hours. So he just walks through the processes and he said, you know, you definitely, you can do it. Here’s the machines and what you need to do it, but you gotta be aware of the, legislation, the legality.
[00:03:15] Around an ordinances, in order to do that. So like, we were like, well, can we create it here in the town we were in? And he’s like, probably not. You’re probably not going to get zoned to, to do paper products, at least very easily. You might have to go to more of an industrial area. So on and so forth.
[00:03:30] And so that was sort of the conversation, but you know, it is very capital intensive. It is a skill set that you have to learn, as well. So that was sort of like, it’s a nice in my mind to do, and I think it sort of aligns and integrates our supply chain. But for me, it’s still a little bit of a bridge to.
[00:03:46] And my mind.
[00:03:47] Jason: Yeah. Right, right, right. Okay. Let’s go around the table here. Chris, what are your thoughts on making items yourself? So of course they’re talking physical items primarily, but also this of course can transition into digital as well. Take it where you want to go.
[00:04:01] Chris: I don’t want to take it all the way to digital and all the way to print on demand because I’ve been in this space for a long time.
[00:04:07] And when I hear manufacturing your own products, That’s something I don’t know a lot about. And that’s where I think people should kind of go with this, but okay. If I don’t know a lot about this, how can I find out more? How can I make sure that I’m getting good information? Where can I find somebody that has the answers to the questions that I have?
[00:04:26] Because these are serious questions, not just like, you know, how do I interpret a Keepa graph or like, you know, I buy a target to reset. Yeah, big deal kind of questions versus okay. If we’re manufacturing, I need to make sure that my suppliers aren’t putting lead paint in their products because of this code in USA and all these different things.
[00:04:43] And you get into those types of details, as well as insurance and liability and all these extra things that you take on. When all of a sudden you’re selling, you’re not just your own private label type products, which is just someone else’s product. Kind of repackage. They’ve already done all the manufacturing work and the, you know, the testing and all that stuff.
[00:05:00] Now you make something completely custom manufactured just for you. You need to make sure that nothing’s going to happen to the consumer. That if something, if the worst possible case happens, you have the proper insurance to go along with it. They’re using a supplier that is reputable and has done this before and knows what they’re doing.
[00:05:14] And they’re not just taking whatever order they can get. And, you know, honestly, I would find somebody like you guys. Can I buy an hour of your time? Can I just ask you a bunch of questions on the phone or on zoom so that you can like point me in the right direction? That’s going to save people, not just time, but just money in sense of, just getting to where they need to go.
[00:05:32] Because if someone can meet those questions, I was like, no, go back to cow. Because he’s got the answers, but I wouldn’t say go Google it. Right. I wouldn’t say I would join a Facebook, this stuff, you know, the seriousness of the question of making sure that you have the things, the proper things in line.
[00:05:48] I mean, you really need to get an expert that costs some money. That’s the money you need to spend. That’s not the
[00:05:53] Jason: time to go cheap. Yeah. Love it. All right, Michael, what are your
[00:05:56] Kyle: thoughts saying? You can’t learn everything on you. Yeah,
[00:06:03] Jason: it’s probably all out there
[00:06:06] Chris: and multiple pieces in different corners of YouTube. And if you want to spend the next 140 hours finding it, knock yourself out, you’re still not going to know it’s the right stuff. Even though you think it’s the right stuff versus coming to somebody who has the experience and say, look off on it.
[00:06:19] Here’s my strategy. Honestly, find somebody that, you know, has the answers that you need and offer them money per hour. And they’re probably going to say. I don’t, I’m not, you know, just starts the conversation, but if you start the conversation by acknowledging that their time is valuable and offering straight, cold, hard cash, that’s going to least open the door to a reply instead of a, Hey, Hey Jason, can I, could I pick your brain over a Christmas break?
[00:06:44] You can get a hard, no, because spending time with his family, like he’s doing his own business kind of thing. Anyway, minor rant there, but people don’t, it works every single time offer. You want to work with an influencer on Instagram, first message. You send them how much for sponsored posts, like let them know you’re offering cash or exchange.
[00:07:03] The knowledge
[00:07:04] Jason: that you want from them anyway. Yep. Alright. Love it. Michael, what are your thoughts? Yeah,
[00:07:08] Michael: so it’s a follow on really from Chris’s point, I think the barrier to making stuff yourself isn’t necessarily the making and to the point of funeral, can you look on YouTube? You know, if you want to know how to mix up some kind of face cream from various different ingredients, I’m absolutely sure.
[00:07:22] Oh, this is a bet, but a fairly strong one, that there was some stuff on YouTube that will tell you that. So I’ve got three examples of people. I know that I’ve started making their own staff, but I think the barrier isn’t the making is the legislation and the legal side, in my opinion, particularly as Amazon’s terms of service develop.
[00:07:37] And I don’t even know how Shopify interacts with, you know, the, the legal systems of the world, but they’re going to be in there. So I had one client who made. It’s taught himself to make skin creamer at his kitchen table, which I thought was really cool. I had another client who was add to your point.
[00:07:51] Kyle’s completely different business. He was very, very good at making products at her kitchen table. That was her old business. And she sold a whole 10 units a month on Shopify and proved incapable of moving onto Amazon. Somehow, at least I couldn’t get her there. I mean, the hint came when she couldn’t have a working laptop, so some people just are good at making stuff.
[00:08:08] And aren’t great at, the digital marketing, but I think the big barrier. Is getting the legislation, right? And to your point, Chris, first of all, people are always asking this in the Facebook group that I run. And, there is no simple answer. There’s no magic kind of place in the sky where people dish out certificates for wildly varying products.
[00:08:25] If you’re going to get through FDA or even the European union legislation, both of which are tough barriers, you just need to approach an expert in a very specific area, such as topicals or face cream specifically, and find out what the legislative jump who’s you are. You’ve got to jump through. I’ve researched this in great detail for clients in the past.
[00:08:40] And the truth is it keeps mutating. So as you say, Chris, find an expert and pay them is honestly going to be quicker than trying to make stuff yourself, which may be you can do in a month and then spent six months trying to piece together the letters.
[00:08:54] Jason: Yeah. Great. Great thoughts, man. Okay. So my, my take on this is a little different than you might expect, but, honestly, my dog is bugging me right now.
[00:09:05] Okay. I’m gonna hold my thoughts, but, Kyle or Chris, respond to what Michael just said, and then I’ll share my thoughts about how we do manufacturing in Zambia for a lot of products
[00:09:13] Chris: backing up. What, what, what, Michael just said, he’s talking about face creams, right? I fear Dunning Kruger effect creeps in, or people are like, oh, this how hard can this be?
[00:09:22] I, I heard that you can just make face creams on your kitchen table, which Mike would you send? I was like, please add an extra sentence to be like, if you’re doing that, make sure it’s a sterile environment and make sure you have your ducks in a row because I’ve seen people packing FBA shipments of food on the garage floor, like Oreos.
[00:09:39] And you’re like, oh my gosh, this is not a good look for everybody. But if you get into categories, Face creams and things you put in and on your body, you better know what you’re doing, right? Because people have allergic reactions and sometimes severe allergic reactions. And I think people don’t think ahead, they think, oh, I don’t have an allergic reaction to this.
[00:09:58] And I love it. So everybody else will love it. Like it, there are so many levels to this and I fear that people think. I watched the YouTube video. This isn’t that hard. I was like, no, like it’s way harder than you think. And even if you think it’s not that hard, you have to be able to acknowledge that you’re probably wrong and still keep looking for more information because the stakes are just too great.
[00:10:19] When you get into not just manufacturing or products, but topicals ingestibles, you have to know what you’re doing. Like spend the money now, or you are going to go bankrupt.
[00:10:29] Jason: Yeah. So my hot takes on this are from our charities point of view in Zambia, we have 64 people on our team and we create purposeful products for, sewing and soap making and food.
[00:10:42] Farm-fresh food is a purposeful product in our view. So, for the sewing team, we’ll do. Basic manufacturing for about 1500 school uniforms a year. And then for a reusable hygiene pad products for girls, we’ll do about 40,000 units a year. And then for soap making, I don’t even know how many units we’ve done, but with COVID response, we literally made probably.
[00:11:09] I would guess 4,000 bars of soap, something like that with our soap team. And then on the home front at pixie fair, we have a product that we, package, make and package and sell. It’s not a huge part of our overall. But, it’s a, it’s a shoe soles actually for craft project, work. And, and we, we sell a lot of them and the margins are great on them.
[00:11:33] So from those points of view, I kind of can speak into this to some degree. I would say, a few hot takes, number one, if you’re currently an e-commerce operator and you’ve got an opportunity for a manufacturing product or project, Start small. And start slow and work your way through the details.
[00:11:52] The legal issues are different for different things. Some are big deals, some are non big deal at all. And so you just have to look through them. That’s not really that complicated to understand. Now you might look into something like, ingestibles and realize you want no part of that business. Fair enough.
[00:12:09] But there are other things that are really. There they’re commonplace products that aren’t, that really, legislatively onerous. And so you just want to look into it. The reasons to control base manufacturing are pretty obvious. It can radically lower your. If that’s not true, you don’t want to do it, but if it is true, then you have an essence and unfair advantage against competitors.
[00:12:32] And in the charity context, we control based manufacturing because we’re passionate about creating jobs. So we’re actually like, for example, this next year, and that actually in the next couple of months, we’ll be adding another, almost 40 people to our team in Zambia, because it’s, you know, we’re growing employees.
[00:12:50] To create the products. And so, you know, every one of these things, start small and you figure it out as you go. We started with eight ladies in 2009, 2010 in Zambia. And in the next few months, we’ll have close to a hundred on our team there. And, and I, I think there are, things to be cautious over, but there are also huge opportunities, to be.
[00:13:12] One of their final comment just, before we go around the table, again is, they’re all different shades of implementation. You know, you can, you can control parts of products. It didn’t need to be packaged up or reworked and put labels on and put out, you know, co-packers in the food industry. They’ll take a lot of product and.
[00:13:32] Do the finished work of it, get it in the customer facing form. But that doesn’t mean their base manufacturers have all the components and there’s so many little iterative loops in there where you get parts of things and then you have somebody put them together or somebody on your team puts them together and makes the finished product out of it.
[00:13:50] All of those elements to me are interesting because again, they create an opportunity for radical reduction in cost, frequently. And that means you’ve got an opportunity to win in any way in a unique way. And you can, you know, a lot of people will come into private label or come into e-commerce they’ll look for products and be like, well, I can get two times markup or I can be a wholesaler.
[00:14:11] I can make, you know, like 17%, you know, margin on above costs. If you do base manufacturing, you can literally find opportunities to have 10 X, or, or 15 X or 20 X, your cost because you stripped out all the layers of. And those are, that’s the reason to look into this. So, so those are just, I guess, enticing, positive attributes of the opportunity that I think might make sense for some people in some industries, in some categories with the right skillsets.
[00:14:43] So with all those caveats, I think there is opportunity to some degree, Kyle, let’s go back to the top of the table and go around again. If you feel free,
[00:14:51] Kyle: go ahead. I was
[00:14:53] Michael: just going to say to your point, I mean, what strikes me, we haven’t discussed yet is we’ve kind of skirted around is which stage of business you are and the reasons why you would do do your stuff yourself.
[00:15:02] So the three examples I know personally are when they’re very early stages and it was a way to test the market without committing, without over-committing too expensive manufacturing and also very time consuming if you make it at your kitchen table. Yes. But to your point before. A hundred percent, you need to know what you’re doing.
[00:15:17] And, and I wouldn’t advise amateurishness when it comes to ingestibles or topicals. You’re absolutely right. But nevertheless, you can S you can speed things up and you can reduce risks. That’s a very different reason for what you’re talking about, Jason, which I think is when you’re more, much more advanced entrepreneur and got an established business for taking things back in the house, probably from outsourcing it in order to get your market from five X or four X to 10 X, as you say.
[00:15:37] So I think it’s really important to be clear, which stays your business. Are you at, and why you’re going to do it? That’s the main thing that stopped
[00:15:43] Kyle: me. Yeah. I mean, there’s a whole, there’s a whole website of manufacturers called Etsy and they do all their own manufacturing. Right. But the challenge is, is that when you go from doing a hundred or even a thousand units a year to doing a hundred thousand to a million units a year, there’s a, there’s a condom use of scale.
[00:16:03] Now I will say this to Jason’s point about it lowering your cost a hundred percent. There’s also another layer to it. And that is you can actually. An expense line and potentially turn it into an income stream. Amazon is classically one of the best companies in the world at doing this. I mean, AWS, which is their web hosting.
[00:16:22] Most of the internet runs on at this point was really built to serve their hosting for Amazon. Well, they turned around and turned it into a product and sold it. And it’s been one of the more profitable segments of their business for the last 10 years. He continues. Extremely profitable. So if you actually controlled all of your manufacturing and you had capacity still in your system, there’s no reason why you couldn’t become a manufacturer for even your competitors, if you wanted to, because now you’re taking money and you’re making, yeah, you’re making it for competitor, but you’re still making.
[00:16:54] And you’re turning that expense line into an actual revenue generation income stream in your business. And I think that’s really, really smart. And any, any time that we can do that in our businesses and think about ways to do that, it’s going to make a big difference.
[00:17:07] Jason: Yeah, totally agree. Chris, any additional thoughts?
[00:17:10] Chris: I like the idea of what Michael you were, right. We kind of skirted around a few different issues as far as like, why you’d even want to do this, but having ultimately control over your business is something that, you know, I’m coming from the print on demand world, where, yeah, you’re at the mercy of Amazon’s printers.
[00:17:25] You’re at the mercy of a direct to garment printer. You’re at their mercy. But if you can control all that, if you control your entire manufacturing process, Yeah, you’re in control and you have fewer risks. And I think people are just unaware how low things can cost. When you find out about how much it actually costs to make and package and ship this product, you’re like, wow, that’s actually really low.
[00:17:48] It’s really low. If you control everything, it’s not going to be that low. If you rely on other people to kind of take a little bit. Off of you and they’re gonna get a little bit of peace. So you think about it that way. But it’s, it’s love and I love print on demand. I love what Michael is talking about with his clients, where you can test small.
[00:18:02] And then when you get that validation and be like, okay, now let’s get big. And then that’s where you need that expert to come in and say, look, what does it take to go from a thousand units a year to 100,000 units? Cause if you don’t know how to do that, you don’t know how to do that. And there’s a great book that I love.
[00:18:15] It’s like what got you here? Won’t get you there. So it got you to a thousand units. It was great, but that skill set is not going to get you to a hundred dollars. That’s a completely different skillset to get there. So it goes back to my first piece of advice is find someone who has done already done what you want to do and beg to work with them.
[00:18:32] Work for them for free offer, to be their apprentice offered to be their social media manager for free for six months, whatever it takes to get them. Yeah, and then you’re going to have a connection and that can get you, keep you on the right track. So you don’t have to make the mistakes along the way and be like, oh, I didn’t know.
[00:18:46] You shouldn’t do that. Well, if you just asked an expert, you would have known, but anyway, I digress.
[00:18:52] Jason: No, it’s a great point. A recent example of that from, for us in our teams is our soap team in Zambia does a process where they basically just melt down and reconstitute to. Charge there are chunks and re and format and cut it, but we’re working hard to have them control more of the process like your base manufacturing.
[00:19:15] And so we didn’t know how to do that. So I looked on YouTube to find the coolest YouTuber that I could find on this. So late. Australian and Ellie, I reached out to her and said, Hey, our team in Zambia needs to learn. Do you do consulting? She was like, I love consulting. Yes. Tell me more. I told her about our project.
[00:19:34] She was like, I would love to do this. And the hourly rate, I’m going to pay for out of pocket is low, relatively speaking low. And then there, there we go. We’ve got a fantastic consultant from Australia who knows everything about a hot processing. As they call it and, and she’s going to teach our team more.
[00:19:52] So the technical capacity is global and, and, and re readily available. And so, and it’s just, it’s a big wide world out there now. It’s just, it’s amazing to me. We can have a team in Zambia on. With the lady from Australia, I had to use the world clock to figure out when we should all meet. Cause it’s like quite complicated to have the Seattle Pacific time zone and Australia time and Zambia time, but we figured it out.
[00:20:20] And no big deal. It’s not complicated. She’s the expert. She knows exactly what to do. And they’re boots on the ground there in Zambia. They know what product, for base, you know, materials are. And we’re going to take it to the next level, and, and start to scale from even where we’re at now.
[00:20:37] And if you have any interests, go check out so powerful that Oregon look for our blog posts about our COVID response. We literally just, we, we made thousands and thousands and thousands of bars. And the community needed it and loves it. And, we’re going to get better at it this year in 2022. So there you go, Chris, as an example of what you’re talking about, it really is that simple.
[00:20:57] You can find experts, for many topics. I was just looking for example, in the Pacific Northwest for co-packers and they do exactly what Kyle described, which is they manufacture food items under their own private label. But then immediately, generally we’ll say we’re. Pack food for you. We have the facilities I’m reading off their websites right now.
[00:21:17] We have the process label and packaging, you know, equipment for creating your products. We can also work with you to create your own unique flavors. And so, you know, the co-packers are, well, I think well-known, industry at this point on the food side, but there are other manufacturers who will do that similar type of work for people who are interested.
[00:21:37] And again, I’ll just say that the companies that we work with directly that make the most money, I think, as in terms of profit, Are the closest to the manufacturing process technically and, and control it themselves, or are like one deviation away from total base, you know, construction of a product, for example, they haven’t made and shipped in, in one form and then they repackage and put it into the final package.
[00:22:03] You know, the, the companies with the biggest margins, that’s the stuff they’re doing. They’re, they’re close to their supply chain and, you know, Kyle. Part of it’s about control too. For the control freaks among us. You’re way more comfortable if you’re in charge of the process, then if you have to go to, get your product other places.
[00:22:22] So there you have it. Let’s go for a final wrap up. Any final comments on this or 22 minutes in, but love any final thoughts or ideas. Yeah, I was
[00:22:31] Michael: just going to say, strikes me to, I’ve got three clients in the mastermind out of maybe 12, 13 businesses at the moment. So there’s quite a high proportion that have some degree they’re in, in house manufacturing.
[00:22:40] And it really is very varied. It struck me that actually two, I can’t remember. It was like Kyle was saying that different parts of the supply chain. Step in there, but maybe it was you Jason, that one of them, for example, has, thousands of thousands of different components floating or hundreds of from China.
[00:22:54] And then, then they’re constructed into fully functioning units in the UK warehouse, which means they’re somewhat vulnerable to a supply chain from China, but they kind of add value themselves, which is an instant kind of halfway through. Which is maybe more doable than sort of starting from raw, you know, bits of plastic.
[00:23:08] And then another one is doing print on demand to your point, Chris. I mean, he actually has in-house capacity, so he’s not dependent on Amazon or anybody else to, to print his staff. But of course, it’s taken him a few years to build up to that point. And then another person does manufacturing on behalf of other companies, which is his only business model at the moment, which is why I’m begging and on bended knee with him to create his own private label products.
[00:23:28] Cause he’s perfectly placed. But to your point, Kyle, he’s kind of started with what you suggested, which is, you know, making a cost base into, you know, as a profit center and now he needs to add more. So there’s quite a few ways to spin this as trying to be from the reality.
[00:23:42] Kyle: Yeah, I think the big picture, I think in my mind that you have to sort of solve. If you’re doing something you have to scale level. So if you’re just starting off great, you know, get, get your, proof of concept done, get your minimally viable product out there. Start building units, start building up a community for it.
[00:24:00] Make sure there’s a demand for a product. But when you’re transitioning to hundreds of thousands of units a year, millions of units, The numbers you really have to be aware of, I think, are your labor costs? The actual startup costs. What sort of manufacturing machinery do you need? And then what’s your raw goods going to be?
[00:24:22] Because one of the advantages of manufacturing historically in China has been their cheap access to raw. And so those raw materials that are created in China get sort of baked into your cost that you pay for it. Now, if you move that somewhere else to the U S or to Mexico, or some other place, you, if they don’t have the exact raw goods that you need in the raw materials, then you need to either you have to import those in as well, or they might be able to be sourced domestically in those locations, but it might cost you more money.
[00:24:51] So those are some of the big factors in my mind, that sort of come into play that you have to sort of do that cost analysis on.
[00:24:57] Chris:
[00:24:57] I think frequently about a line from the movie, the Incredibles where like syndrome is like about to win and he, and he going to sell all his inventions so that everybody becomes a super, and he says, when everyone’s super, then no one is. And I think about that all the time, because of the time that we live in, where we all have a super computer in our pocket.
[00:25:16] And you can listen to a show like this on calling. And if you’re like, I don’t know how to do this. And Jason tells you I needed to find a soap versus. Found one and reached out and then we use this amazing technology on zoom, where Africa’s talking to Australia, like it’s all possible. And sometimes I think people want to have an excuse.
[00:25:33] They want to say, I don’t know how to do the manufacturing. I don’t know how to do that. Well, if you really want to, you can do it, but I see people make the excuse of thinking, well, if everybody can do this, then there’s not gonna be any opportunity. Like someone’s already done it or someone’s done it better.
[00:25:47] W no, like the opportunity is there and people need to kind of step into it and be like, yes, I can do this. And if I don’t know how to do it, I’ll find someone that like, the opportunity is there. But I imagine if you’re the only one with an iPhone, how cool you think you would be or how powerful the things you could do.
[00:26:05] But now we all have iPhones where like, eh, who cares that it’s iPhone X, right? It’s few years old. Who cares? Right. It’s like, we’re all still super, but we just have to actually act on it instead of making the excuse of like, well, I’m not like super. Like, I don’t know. I’ve seen this by coaching people over the past 10 years, so I hope anybody listening it’s stumbled onto the show.
[00:26:24] Well, that’s exactly what I need. Thank you, Jason, for like, just kind of confirming that. Yes. I can find somebody like it’s really just about taking action at this point. There are really no barriers to finding the right knowledge that you need and the manufac factors they wants to work with. You, that’s literally their job, like please.
[00:26:41] And I love the manufacturers that are saying, Hey, if you want to make your own face cream, we can do that for you and then make YouTube content. And they show people what. Capable of, and begging say, look, please bring us your formula and we’ll even help you market it. Like. The problem is there’s too many opportunities.
[00:26:57] So find one and actually go for it.
[00:27:00] Jason: It’s totally true. That is so true, man. The problem is there’s too many opportunities. Yeah, I totally totally agree with that. I think for the mature business owners who are listening, I would just say, if you’re struggle with margin. In your current suite of products, look into the opportunity to manufacture a related item that your customers would love and grow it as a little, seedling in your garden, have products and grow it up into a mature thing that could carry more financial weight inside your system.
[00:27:32] And you know, That that might be an approach. It won’t ever be maybe the entirety of your revenue stream, but it certainly can play a part and the way cost and margins work, a good, solid, product line with a wonderful margin will help your business radically. So, you know, th th just, even if 20% or 30% of your total revenue comes from a product line that has a really good margin, it’s going to radically improve.
[00:27:58] Your total, total top line, you know, profits in your business. Hopefully that makes sense to everybody. Okay, guys, this has been a wonderful conversation as always your insights and points of view are terrific. Thanks everybody for joining us in the call and app, and or if you’re listening to this on the e-commerce leader, we really appreciate your enthusiasm for this.
[00:28:19] We’re growing like crazy. It’s kinda cool to look at the stats. I always look at the Spotify stats and it’s just been a blast to see the audience continue to grow. So please do follow us on the player of choice that you like and subscribe and, or like, and or whatever action you can take to show support for the show.
[00:28:37] It’s incredibly helpful to us. Feel free to share it with your friends as well. All right, guys, I’m gonna wrap it there as always. It’s an honor. Thanks for hanging out today.
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