The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Jason: I think all of us can think about the ways in which we can serve the world. With things that we are good at, things that we love, but no one wants to pay for it
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[00:01:11] Michael: it’s the time of year that people are focused on goals, how they’ve done during the current year and what they need to change for the year ahead. So we’ve got a nice two part couple of episodes and we are gonna dive into the science and art of setting goals and achieving them.
[00:01:25] Jason, great topic. Really top of mind for both of us. I think that’s, we’ve organically come up with this topic. I think it’s very important for a lot of people listening as well. You’ve got a nice four part outline for goal setting, so let’s work through that together. Tell us what you got there.
[00:01:38] Jason: Yeah, I love this topic.
[00:01:39] It is timely. We’re recording this on end of November, just before Thanksgiving and here in the US and it’s always a time where I start to get really, sentimental about the year behind and vision oriented about the year ahead. So yeah, I love this topic. I’m glad we’re doing this.
[00:01:54] When we started to approach the subject, I started to think about the writing I had done in my e-commerce power book. The first chapter is all about goal setting, and I have, seven goal setting systems by seven different gurus. Some are more well known than others. The one that I like a lot as it relates to actually visualizing the goals or coming up with the goals is the Japanese, system.
[00:02:17] That’s an ancient Japanese system called Ikigai. And it is described in Japanese as your reason for being, how to find your reason for being. And it has four parts. And so I thought we’d go through those as a framework for how we can get after this idea of setting up your appropriate goals, the most meaningful goals for 2023 or whatever year ahead you’re looking at.
[00:02:40] And so that’s the framework I thought we’d use.
[00:02:43] Michael: Nice. And I think that actually, a lot of us get premature or practicality as I’ve heard it described, which is to say that we, worry about how we’re gonna achieve things without being clear at all about not only what do we want to achieve intellectually, but even like, how do we feel about it?
[00:02:56] And I think that the Iki guy thing, involves that, doesn’t it? So let’s go through that, that system. So it’s a simple four part framework, but which is actually quite subtle. So that, what’s the first thing we’ve gotta. .
[00:03:06] Jason: Yeah. The first question that they ask you to reflect on is, what do you love?
[00:03:11] And I always hear gurus say this big debate, can you make money with what you love? Should you focus on what you should love? Or in terms of goals and business, do, should you camp on that, what you love? And in the EQ guys system, it’s just one of the four questions, but it is the first one and it’s a vital one.
[00:03:27] What is it that’s pa you’re passionate about that you really deeply resonate with and, are excited by? I can tell you that, I’m doing this work because, right now, that 2023, year ahead, I want to have different goals than I had for 2022. And I wanna reprioritize and, the things that I’m passionate about that I really love, I wanna prioritize and tee up more.
[00:03:48] And I know so funny, but I’ll just mention a couple of them and where my mind’s at with this stuff. One is, our, charitable. Endeavors in Zambia and the programs that we’re building there. And then another one is gardening, and actually they tie together, gardening and a focus on, sustainability and agriculture, small scale farming.
[00:04:07] And so those are two things that I really am passionate about. It just me, they mesmerized my heart, my interests, and, I love that stuff. And so for me, that’s the answer to the first one. What are your thoughts on this first question, what do you.
[00:04:21] Michael: It’s an interesting debate. I think it’s an artificial, it’s an artificial dichotomy, if that’s the right word.
[00:04:26] It’s an artificial split. Can you just decide on what you love and then focus on that as your money making you, you can, it happens to work for some people, I guess Steven Spielberg, the age of 17 one is into the lot aware of it is paramount and that’s it. And that’s it. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:37] and that’s his thing for the rest of his life. And I know some musicians like that, but most of us have to compromise to some degree. So that’s the first thing. It’s okay to know what you love. You don’t have to immediately implement it. But I think it is important to at least be honest with yourself.
[00:04:49] If you’re doing something for utilitarian reasons, you need to be clear about that. In which case, if it’s supposed to make money, is that real? Is it actually gonna make money? If it’s for fun or you love, it doesn’t even matter if it makes money. In your case with the charity, it’s the opposite cash flow, right?
[00:05:02] You’re giving more money than you’re making, and that’s intentional. And the other thing that strikes me is it doesn’t have to be either a, it can be a of a hobby business combination that gives you joy. For example, James Franco is an extremely effective business creator and business coach. I think that, one of the best out there.
[00:05:18] And he is very consciously set his life up such that he’s running his business, whatever, 20 hours a week, maybe 30, and he goes surfing 20 hours a week. He’s not a professional surfer, he’s not trying to build a business around it or necessarily a career, but he gives him joy. So he’s arranged his life such that even. He’s not necessarily trying to combine those things into one business. It’s part of his overall life picture, which I think is really important.
[00:05:40] Jason: Yeah, totally. I heard Steve Jobs in a little video clip, on YouTube about this specific idea, a couple days ago, and he basically said in it, you have to do the things that you love or you have to love the things you’re working on for the fundamental reason that if you don’t, you’ll give up and you won’t succeed because you won’t have the passion for the fire for in your soul.
[00:06:07] And so this is just the first question and the IY guy model, but you have to start with it as a presupposition of what you’re gonna be working on because to his point, when it gets hard and when it’s feels impossible, and when it feels like, there’s no way this is gonna ever work. It’s your irrational passion for the thing.
[00:06:28] That will keep you grinding and keep you focused and keep you dreaming and thinking and innovating long after other people have given up. That’s the reason why it’s gotta be foundational. And you gotta take , you gotta take Steve Jobs, in the mix on this because he has created basically the business that has changed the entire world so dramatically.
[00:06:52] I literally, this morning, woke up and I do this every morning. I grab my phone, I walk in, I get my iPod and my AirPods and my laptop, my MacBook, and I sit on the couch and boot ’em all up. I’m literally in the first five minutes of waking up, surrounded by what, three or four, $5,000 worth of Steve CHOP’s products,
[00:07:13] And, and that’s just the reality for many people. So I think his thesis is right. You have to have the love for it. because the irrational passion you bring to it will be what makes you succeed through the hard times. And so what are your, what are a couple things on your list? What, if you wanna share anything that you wanna share about that you’re passionate about?
[00:07:33] Michael: I was gonna say, yeah, for me there are aspects of e-commerce that I’m not passionate about and even Amazon have a sort of love hate relationship with. But some things I just really enjoy Full stop. And to the point of Apple, I guess Tim Cook loves logistics and that’s one of the reasons that they hired, Steve Jobs had hunted him to be the COO and eventually he’s stepped into the role as CEO and done very well because, I love things like the business strategy, helping my clients, directly do I love dealing with Amazon consumers directly through the feedback mechanism of rude reviews or, things like that.
[00:08:03] Not so much. So there’s, I think there are aspects of. Industries or aspects of your particular business that you may love and others you don’t love, and to the point of designing a 2023 that focuses on what you love more? It’s good to be clear about that as well. Not that you abandon the unsexy bits of your business, but you focus on getting yourself out of those and getting somebody else to take care of them so you, you don’t just abdicate responsibility, but equally, you don’t have to keep doing the things that.
[00:08:28] In your business, it might be doing your books, for example. Those sorts of things. . . Yeah. Yeah. So me, for me, it’s gonna be about focusing on partnerships, in terms of actual business building rather than just doing stuff on my own. I’m done with that. , it’s too lonely and I like working with other people who compliment me, particularly if they’re great at product and production.
[00:08:46] That’s not my passion or my forte. And I found one person that I’m discussion with to potentially do some really exciting things there. And then the other thing is to just really help, business owners to, expand their business. And for me, what floats my boat is with stuff that other people find horrible, like financial planning and getting more financially literate for me, I’m just really excited about that cuz I’m a massive nerd.
[00:09:04] So those are the things that I’m really looking forward to doing. 2023 myself. Nice.
[00:09:09] Jason: I. Yeah. Cool. Okay. So that’s the first question. And if you’re following along listening to this podcast, and you can, if you’re not driving, take some notes or write down these four questions. And or just snag a copy of my book, E-Commerce Power cuz they’re in the first chapter.
[00:09:23] But anyway. Okay, let’s move on. The, the second big question they ask you is, what are you good at? And this is an interesting one because there’s a huge body of work associated with these ideas of the 10,000 hours, principle or idea, which is, you don’t gain mastery in a, an art form or subject or trade skill until you spent 10,000 hours on it, or just roughly that concept, that time in the trade craft is what produces, you’re being good at something.
[00:09:55] And I think this is a really interesting, notion because, there are things that you love that you’re not good at yet. But your passion for them, spurs you forward into the art and craft of it, and you end up getting good at it because you love it. And that’s basically the, the pull of learning trade craft is that, that passion for it.
[00:10:16] And so I think it’s important to ask the question, what are you good at? But to me, this is a secondary question because I think people can get good at a lot of things. Now. Can you get world class? I don’t know. You have a huge background in music and professionalism in that regard.
[00:10:31] Be interesting to know you’re thinking on this, but I think the main core of it is, what trade craft or trade skill do you have that you can bring to the party? That you would say, this is one of my areas of expertise. This is where I have genius, or I have, skill set that is.
[00:10:47] Competent, journeyman level or higher expert level. What are your thoughts on this question of what are you good at? That’s
[00:10:54] Michael: a really interesting question. I’ve gone through three levels with this really. I guess I started off with the idea that you have, talent for certain things and some people are just more eccentric.
[00:11:03] In other words, they’re more unbalanced and very good at certain things and very bad at others. And I’m tending that kind of direction myself. So I guess then if you’re naturally like way inclined, you rely on talent for quite a bit of your life and then you get to the realization that, as you said, that there’s the Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hour idea, or he’s popularized the idea, amongst others, which I think is true.
[00:11:22] But then I have come to a third position now, which is combining the two. If you’re gonna spend 10,000 hours on something, why not spend it on something you are pretty naturally good at anyway, and then you can get seriously good at it. And that’s what I’m trying to do for myself. I’m naturally good at talking, at least I naturally talk a lot.
[00:11:38] Whether that’s good or bad depends on whether you want to listen to a podcast or want to have a peaceful evening. So I was gonna talk for the rest of my life anyway. It’s why I started a podcast and to the extent that I’ve now done a lot of that. And so visual and auditory communication, I suppose I’ve got something that was a talent and now honed it as well.
[00:11:54] So that’s something I definitely want to continue to do and to increase, the amount of training and communication I do with Amazon sellers and other eCommerce sellers. So I guess I would say in the end, passion is great, but why not put passion and talent and then put a load of hours on top, and then you’re really looking at producing something really world class, I think, in the end.
[00:12:16] Jason: Yeah, totally. I totally agree. You if you’ve got a little advantage, you lean into it. And that’s really the core thesis of behind the Malcolm Gladwell book Outliers, where he debunks the idea, but he doesn’t actually debunk the idea. He just explains why. For example, most the NHL hockey players are born in January, February, or March in the calendar year.
[00:12:39] He explains why the, excellence occurs in sort of an intriguing way, and that’s because people who have a little bit of a head start frequently when they lean into it, it gets amplified in really dramatic ways. So you might not feel like you’re good at something, but if you’re a slightly better version of the, the technician than everyone else, and you lean into it, the amplification effect, and this is particularly true on internet work, the amplification effect kicks in and expounds or magnifies your lead.
[00:13:17] This happened to me when I was passionate about, blogging and I was interested in how Pinterest was working as a marketing tool for us. So I started the blog marketing on Pinterest. This was in 2010, 2011, something like that, long time ago now. But no one else was writing about the subject. And my blog was not pretty, it was not particularly scholarly, it was not particularly expert in any way.
[00:13:49] I’m just a dude who, the small business that has a, master’s in business. And I started writing about marketing on Pinterest and I got a book deal two weeks later and McGraw Hill amplified my work and my lead. And that really led to my writing career. And I look back and think, I didn’t particularly Pinterest that much.
[00:14:10] I’m not particularly passionate about Pinterest. I’m not particularly awesome at it or anything like that. I just had a little bit of a lead in terms of my thinking and I leaned in and all the rest that happened was. Just the Internet’s amplification. So I do think this is a vital one, to ask the question, what are you good at?
[00:14:27] And don’t underestimate even slight competency, especially if it’s an area that’s new or innovative in the internet, a small little lead can really dramatically, unfold to massive success and outcome. So don’t underestimate the little things that you’re good at, especially if you combine it with what you love,
[00:14:50] Michael: I guess there’s a sort of flip side of that, which is that a slightly more depressing, but something to think about, which is if somebody else has got a massive head start in an area and they’re also talented, and by now probably well funded, if you’re talking about business backed situation, then it’s probably not a fight you wanna be picking.
[00:15:09] That, that’s another way of putting it is if everyone else is, not everyone, but if the leaders in an industry say, in a niche physical product type within the Amazon sphere or broad on the internet, whatever it may be, coaching, consulting, running a, an agency which everyone sees to be doing now, the Amazon space, whatever it may be, if somebody else is really talented and they really like it and they’re really established, then don’t pick that fight and in which case, we wanna keep going with, the icky guy thing because I think the next one might be, really helpful in figuring out.
[00:15:39] If you look around, you think, I really love X and I’m really good at that, but lots of other people are doing it. What do I do next? So what’s the next thing? Number
[00:15:47] Jason: three. I love that line of, thinking, and you’re totally right. I was just listening to a podcast and the company leaders basically said, we’re looking for areas where we can clearly and easily be number one definitively, leadership position or we don’t do it.
[00:16:07] And they, it’s number one or they’re out Now. The nuance though, the counter-argument to the counter-argument is that’s why branding and positioning exists . Go read a Marketing Warfare by Al Reese and Jack Trout. That’s basically the business of differentiation. And and so what are you good at?
[00:16:28] If it stacks against a million competitors that are also good at the same. That doesn’t mean you don’t pursue it, it means you have to differentiate yourself from all of those people in a way that allows you to have a sub niche, a sub angle perspective, point of view, topic, approach that is uniquely yours.
[00:16:47] And that’s the answer. Okay. So anyway, back to Guy and that framework, unless you wanna re respond to the response, but No. Okay, let’s keep going. Number three is what does the world need from you? And this is an interesting question cuz it kind of unpacks that same idea. It’s what is out there already?
[00:17:06] And what does the world need you to create to make it a better place? And to your point, if you’re in a physical product space and you’re trying to make the. Garlic press number 19,422, that will be sold on Amazon. Does the world need that from you? Or, in the intellectual space, does the world need another, how to do email marketing effectively?
[00:17:29] Ebook you know, the, these questions, pop into all of our minds in terms of how we do e-commerce. And I think it’s vital to ask this question, what does the world really need? And it asks, it begs the question or asks us to look at what’s out there already. What does the competitive field of marketing look like in our specific, area of interest?
[00:17:48] What are your thoughts on this one?
[00:17:51] Michael: Yeah, and I think. This one is really important. It’s a very commercial minded question and therefore really important. And I think it’s too easy to get depressed when you just look at this in isolation. You think, what do I love? I really wanna produce a very beautiful and if cinnamon had looks at this, for example, I wanna produce very beautiful, things in the doll market.
[00:18:08] And when I get up, it turns out she is a genius level creating ok, your stuff, does the world need this? It’s very easy to get premature that question and go, world doesn’t need this. And, Therefore I’m gonna move on as opposed to analyzing a bit more deeply.
[00:18:20] And I would say the solution is instead of saying, what does the world need, which is not a terrible question, but very general, not even what does my country need, or what is, a general market need to dig into a very specific person and a very specific problem that is not addressed very well.
[00:18:35] And we’ve talked about this many times, but I think, the clue, the starting point for that is, what do you love doing? What do you specifically love doing? What is it exactly like for me? I love explaining complex ideas to people in a way that their light bulb goes on and I see them get it, and then they go and implement it and get practical results.
[00:18:52] That’s quite specific. And if I can then narrow that down to the needs of e-commerce businesses in the UK that are actually in business rather than just aspiring to it, then suddenly it’s a lot easier to answer the question, what does that little world need? And actually come up with something that feels.
[00:19:07] Winnable. So I think it’s, yeah, that’s, it’s the old nicheing down question, but I think with your icky guy framework, if you start off with what you specifically love and very specifically good at and then think immediately about the people that could use that helps to narrow down straight away.
[00:19:22] Jason: Yeah, totally agree. That, and you’ve done that so brilliantly as you think about the mastermind group you created in London, it’s does the world need another mastermind for e-commerce? Probably not, but is London a perfect place to have a local meetup, mastermind the in-person people and that, that’s really this the anchor point that you can build on.
[00:19:42] Yeah, that’s really an interesting thing. So I love this, line of thinking, cuz you’re right, we don’t need to have the whole world need something for us to make a great business out of it. We can serve a very small community. It could be local, or it could just be a specific type of demographic.
[00:19:56] Psychographic. Person, a particular group that is defined by culture or interests. And we can serve that world of users very effectively. And I think that’s an important like line of thinking. Pedro Ode is a guy I follow. He does a lot of challenges. That’s his kind of big marketing tool and he has a quote that I love, which is carve your niche so tightly only you fit in it as the service provider.
[00:20:26] And I think there’s some real wisdom there.
[00:20:30] Michael: That car, your niche so tightly, you only, the only you fit in it. That’s really good. The flip side of that is to think, the Seth coding quote around this is something like, I can’t remember the exact way he puts it, but as usually he’s so deft with words, which is his genius that, belief from the market’s perspective that in their world, meaning that for somebody who sells on Amazon and lives in London or lives in the UK and sees London as a business center, which it naturally is for Europe, I guess still even post Brexit, then.
[00:20:58] in that world do I figure largely, am I really solving the biggest problem they have? Which is often the isolation. , . And so within that person’s world view, you can still take up the world if you like, but for a very specific person, I’m not putting it very well. But in other words, so in the customers, your ideal consumer’s mind, you are big.
[00:21:17] Even though in the wider world you’re tiniest bit, if that makes sense. Which is the flip side of that very wise advice niche so tightly that only you fit. That’s brilliant. I like that a lot. So that’s the kind of business focused version of it. The other, the Seth coding thing is like the consumers experience of it.
[00:21:33] Brilliant. Like that stuff a lot. So the fourth question is a really very commercial question, isn’t it? So what’s the fourth question?
[00:21:39] Jason: Yeah. The fourth one is, what can you get paid for? And this question is a great one because I think all of us can think about the ways in which we can serve the world.
[00:21:51] With things that we are good at, things that we love, but no one wants to pay for it. And there are just things out there in the universe that have become demonetized and that list of things is growing. We used to pay for things that now we get for free. And that list of things that are just out there for free seems to continue to grow as, data becomes basically costless and storage becomes costless.
[00:22:16] And, there’s so many things, utilities for on the internet are basically, costless in many ways. And so what you can get paid for is, getting trickier and trickier all the time. And it’s really something to think about and ponder because, there are monetization models.
[00:22:33] Basically will work that allow the end user to not pay for something, but you still get paid. And this is, my mind is going towards the ideas associated with free, the future of a radical price. And that book is groundbreaking in many ways because it clarifies so nicely the ideas of the two party models that, for example, YouTube runs on where the consumer doesn’t pay anything but the content creator does get paid because of advertising.
[00:23:04] And, there are people who set up YouTube channels 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and have invested in them very faithfully with little tiny ideas that have just over time blown up and the consumers. Paid for any of that. It’s all paid for by this advertising model that Google is geniusly constructed in inside of YouTube.
[00:23:26] So the question of what the world, will pay for and what you can get paid for is really important for us to think about is e-commerce sellers and online marketers because it is a very complicated thing, to think through and understand. It’s not exactly just obvious, I guess is my point.
[00:23:41] So what are your thoughts on that?
[00:23:43] Michael: I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s really important to think through the monetization model and to be aware also if you’re on a platform, what the monetization model of the platform is or what it evolves into. If you start off being on, Amazon, it used to be it was a first party seller only, as in Amazon bought stuff from other people paid for that stock.
[00:24:00] Or in some way, maybe on very good credit terms, but they paid for the stock at some point and then they sold it and then the whole third party marketplace blew up. And then they are now basically a marketplace with a little bit of the first party sort of anchor. And you need to be aware of that because if you’re selling on Amazon, the way they make money now is charging you advertising money.
[00:24:18] It’s not even fulfilling your products because that probably runs roughly at break even. It’s hard to make, to know the inner workers of Amazon, they don’t break it down for us. They’re probably making a loss right now cuz they’re probably over hired and they’re getting rid of people very quickly, which is a bit of a sign.
[00:24:31] And so how is Amazon making money? You gotta make sure that of two things. If you align with that, they’ll probably, rank your stuff and sell your stuff. And if you go against it, you’re gonna be fighting the behemoth. And the other thing is you gotta be aware of how they’re making money.
[00:24:43] If it’s from you as a third party seller, which I think it is, then you gotta be so aware of where they’re trying to make money and don’t overspend, which is advertising. So other people’s monetization models hit very directly what you end up getting paid for. But also other simple things like you may be getting paid if you are very Amazon focused, you’re used to the idea of spending money on advertising now and getting paid next week with revenue for your product.
[00:25:07] But if you are trying to transition to a direct to consumer, on your own site, Shopify site, whatever it may be, you gotta think much more about the fact that you are not making money for your first sale that’s paying for the advertising, maybe not even on the second sale. And this sounds obvious to, particularly to you Jason, as somebody’s, helps people in that world.
[00:25:24] But for those who are used to making money on the front, on Amazon, that’s still a sort of, it’s news . And you’ve gotta think about that monetization model, meaning. Or just how do you make revenue, but how do you actually make profit? And that takes a lot more thought sometimes than people give it, really look into it for, I think.
[00:25:41] Yeah,
[00:25:41] Jason: totally man. I completely agree. Okay, so with that fourth, question, ask and answered the EQ guy model’s very nice. You can just Google it and see they do basically this, it’s not a vinn diagram, but it’s something like, I don’t know what a vinn diagram is with four circles, but, it’s probably Vinn diagram, yeah. , I guess it is. And it’s a very nice overlapping set of, circles. And then what you of course can do is narrow down what specific ideas or right in the heart of it, the strike zone in baseball terms or the sweet spot, what is dead center in the middle of these four questions.
[00:26:17] And I, that’s, I think that’s an interesting line of thinking. I’m gonna work through these more for 2023 as I think about. The upcoming year and what I wanna focus on. The four questions again to recap are what do you love? What are you good at? What does the world need and what can you get paid for?
[00:26:35] And asking and answering those, I think are a great start towards setting up goals that are gonna be very effective for you.
[00:26:42] Michael: Yeah, it’s fantastic. And I really think what’s great about that as well is it’s a super simple framework, but it’s therefore simple enough to use as a filter for any new project.
[00:26:50] You can just say, do we love this? Not really. Am I good at this? Not particularly. You can get a stop at that point, can’t you? If you’re thinking of a new product line or service or type of customer you wanna serve and just say, yeah, it doesn’t tick those boxes. Another way of putting it is I’ve got, I can see the book by Derek Silvers on my shelf here.
[00:27:05] Hell yeah. No, which is his polite version, which is this kind of helps you to filter that kind of thing, doesn’t it? It’s is this a real Yes, which is a slightly different question, but it’s really related, isn’t it? If it doesn’t tick all these boxes, then it’s not gonna be a real winner. It’s not gonna be joyous.
[00:27:21] It’s probably not gonna make money. So don’t bother to simple terms. That’ll be a hundred dollars please for that advice. But it sounds simplistic, but I think having very simple filters through which to put multiple ideas, helps to simplify life. And that’s a great thing in the complicated modern world.
[00:27:36] So dude, this is a great framework and obviously, as you said, if people want to find out more about it, they should go by your book, which is eCommerce Power, which came back in a new edition at the beginning of 2022. Is that right? Is that the latest edition? ,
[00:27:48] Jason: yeah. Original edition. First launched in 2020.
[00:27:51] Michael: Yeah. Excellent. That’s the place to go for it. Brilliant. We’re gonna talk in a minute about how to actually achieve a goals, what you’ve set them, but for the moment, This have been great. Thanks for taking us through your view of iki Guy. Great stuff. Yeah.
[00:28:04] Jason: Loved it man. Great stuff. And as always, if you’re listening to this and would like to follow us or learn more, check out the eCommerce leader.com for links and connections and additional info.
[00:28:18] Cool.
[00:28:18] Michael: That’s episode one raps, isn’t it? Yeah. You good to go for episode two? Great. Am I doing the intro for this? Yeah, sure. Okay, here we go. Then.
[00:28:29] PhD, graduate school research researcher. Is that, let me just try that again, researcher. Okay. That’s right. Let me just read this through you. Okay.
[00:28:48] Okay. Let me try again. PhD graduate school researcher Gail Matthews, has done some definitive work on goal achievement and documented an interesting hierarchy or pyramid of goal achievements that has five levels. In this episode, we’re going to explain that work and give you the scientifically proven best way to achieve your goals.
[00:29:09] In other words, we talked about how to set goals, how are you actually going to achieve them? That’s the question we’re gonna try and answer in this episode. Jason, ready to dive into this, interesting look at goal setting and achievement.
[00:29:20] Jason: Yeah, I love this topic. I’m really excited about this, framework that we’re gonna talk about and the reasons why it’s so powerful.
[00:29:27] Yeah, let’s do it, man. Let’s jump into it.
[00:29:29] Michael: Excellent. So first of all, why is this exciting you so much, this particular framework?
[00:29:35] Jason: I’m in the season of planning, I guess you could say. It’s the end of year as we’re recording. And just whatever. There’s five weeks left in the year, and I’m thinking about what did the 22 20 22 look like for me?
[00:29:47] What does 2023 look like? How do I appropriately frame specific goals? And then how do I get after them? And, I’m just laser being focused on this, so it’s a great conversation to be having right now. this particular info is from the first chapter of my book, E-Commerce Power, where I outlined seven different goal setting systems by different gurus.
[00:30:08] And I like this one because this gal Matthews is a little known researcher. She’s not like a guru or anything, but what she did was she had heard this apocryphal story over and over about how there was a group of Harvard students who were, tracked for 70 years and the ones that had goals written down.
[00:30:30] Were, tracked at the end of their life. How much more you know did they do than the ones that didn’t have goals? She is a researcher and she basically heard that story a million times. So she asked the question, where’s the data? What class of Harvard or whatever it was, and where is actually the outcomes?
[00:30:47] As it happens, it was all just apocryphal. There was no actual group that actually could be documented in any way inside Harvard or anywhere else, like at Oxford or Cambridge or anything like that. Stanford. And what she found out was, it was just a made up story that kind of fit people’s preconceived notion, but that then prompted her to do a formal research study.
[00:31:10] And she did it in 2007, and she has definitive proof of actually specific outcomes in goal achievement that, People more or less effective in terms of how they get after their goals. So this is the context in which this, little framework we’re gonna share. There’s basically five, five levels you could say, of goal achievement that we’re gonna talk about.
[00:31:31] And this is where this come from.
[00:31:34] Michael: Nice. I like that a lot. I like the fact that she started with, something that turned out to be not true and then dived into the research. And I guess we’ll find out, from what you tell us, how true that is. So I guess the idea is that, and by the way, everyone from Tony Robbins onwards has quoted it.
[00:31:49] So it just shows the dangers of just keeping passing on something. Cuz you heard it from some guru on the internet, doesn’t it? Having documented research is a good plan. Just a side note there. Okay. What’s level one then? What’s the least successful version? Don’t do this
[00:32:02] Jason: at home. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:03] So just to set up the research that she did, she basically asked people to do one of five types of goal. Related activities. And then she measured and monitored the actual success of the achievement. So the, she had five buckets of people and so then now as we present them, we’ll talk about them.
[00:32:22] I’ll rank order the success most successful, one, and we’ll start with the least successful, one of the five buckets of activity that, she asks people to go after. And the first one, the first, layer, I guess you could say, or first approach would be creating a goal that you simply think about in your mind.
[00:32:41] So the goal, that’s just a mental ascent, I want to do this. And she asked people to do that, to, to say, in their mind what the goal is. And then she documented at the end of this big study, how successful those people were against, achieving the goal. And that was the least successful way.
[00:32:58] Goal, achievement could be accomplished was just literally have a goal in your mind and try to go after it. So that’s level one, least successful strategy. I can go through all five. Or you wanna just jump in on these? What’s your thought here? You want me to just rattle off our fi all five or what do you wanna do?
[00:33:13] Good question.
[00:33:15] Michael: I think we should keep people waiting. It’s gonna be like count on for five. So this is the least successful. Let’s keep the suspense here. So the least successful, does she tell us what her thinking is of why this is, I guess you can’t answer that so easily. The study.
[00:33:29] What was her thinking about that and what’s your thinking about why?
[00:33:32] Jason: Yeah. There’s basically like four breakthrough levels that we’ll we can talk about. And those breakthrough levels I think have specific meaningful contribution to the goal achievement and they make sense once we can explain ’em here.
[00:33:45] Okay, so first level is, Just mental ascent to your goal. The second level that did have more effectiveness was the goal that was written down. If people wrote down their goals, they were more successful than the people who just had them in their mind. And now this matches that old myth, that Harvard kind of myth.
[00:34:05] And so that’s the origin story of I think that lore of the, the successful Harvard graduates. I think this is where it comes from, is just people’s basic understanding that a goal written down is gonna be more highly achieved than a goal. Just thought about, but this is only the second layer level of success.
[00:34:22] There’s still three more above this one. So any thoughts on that? You want me to keep going?
[00:34:26] Michael: Yeah. I think what’s interesting is that. It turned out to be successful, but not enough, so that’s is a good starting point, interesting that the kind of, the story was validated, but not as powerful as you might want to if you were a big believer in it.
[00:34:39] So what’s the better next level then?
[00:34:41]