The E-commerce Leader

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[00:00:00] MV: You know, expertise to claim and, and success stories in terms of my clients. So it is interesting to reflect. I think my, the other reason for me why it’s not happening is simple. It’s the stuff you were talking about. There’s nobody holding me accountable and trying to do this stuff in a vacuum.
[00:00:13] To be fair, to, uh, to be fair to you and be fair to me, it’s really hard. I think the solution’s gotta be, you make me reflect on this
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[00:01:56] JM: All right. Let’s do question three. Huh?
[00:01:59] MV: okay. Are you stretching for new goals? Yeah. Let, let me ask you then, are you stretching for new goals or are you feeling satisfied and plateaued? Do you have written goals and a budget? You have to hit
[00:02:11] JM: Mm. Man, that is a hard question, which is why I put it on the list.
[00:02:15] MV: You are asking yourself a hard questions via me. I like it. This is a good, good me.
[00:02:19] JM: man. I am, I’m here. here are hard questions for you to ask me, Michael. Um, see, I’ve created the context in which I’m being held accountable. Um, yeah. You know, the reality is we started this year with, I would say undefined, um, revenue goals for our various ventures on both the, you know, company. With my wife and I, and on the charity side, we had clearer goals.
[00:02:42] And then on my consulting business with Kyle, uh, we didn’t have a specific, uh, revenue target. And, and I’m, you know, it’s January or February 12th as we record this. And I would just say I’m rethinking the logic of that idea. Like we didn’t deliberately not have goals, we just didn’t do it. We just didn’t do the hard work.
[00:03:00] And, um, you know, the question is, do we have a budget? We have to. Um, in the charity we do for sure, we have a stated proforma 2023, uh, you know, goal for both program and income, you know, revenue. Um, and so, you know, that’s clearer. But in the businesses we were kind of just like, Hey, let’s just keep going.
[00:03:16] Let’s just keep doing this stuff we’re doing. And, um, I would say that’s insufficient if I’m being.
[00:03:23] MV: It’s very interesting that comes up, I mean, the, in the mastermind on Wednesday. Cause I, we have these fairly, uh, freeform, um, structures a lot of the time. And I’ve kept that because it works. I, I’ve just discovered that what people are really thinking and then when you really get into a discussion where people are frank, um, You know, like we’re doing now, you actually get more interesting answers than if, if you go through some kind of artificially structured program.
[00:03:44] And that can be good as well. That’s a different thing. But anyway, what came up was budgets and uh, you know, one person said we don’t really have a budget. Somebody’s got to like $4 million a year. Um, revenue, not even run rate. That’s training 12 months. So, you know, they’ve got five brands, they’re doing well, but they’ve never really bothered with the budget.
[00:03:58] Partly cuz they’ve grown well and they’ve got fairly low overheads, whereas somebody else has got China overheads. They said, oh my goodness, I can’t believe you’ve got a budget. You’ve gotta have a budget. And then we sort of, he hammered them over the head for a minute and then the guy said, look, I didn’t really come here to get a hammering so much just to find out how to do it, so we moved on.
[00:04:13] But, but, um, you know, I’m guilty. I’m guilty of the same thing. I mean, I guess if you don’t have to have a budget because you don’t have the. Again, it’s a little bit like if you don’t have the apparent pain, like investors holding you accountable, um, you know, banks calling and where’s our money this month?
[00:04:28] Again, if you don’t have a big overhead, you don’t have a necessity to be so organized. You aren’t as organized. And the irony of that is of course, nothing else works as well. So that was interesting that, how that came up organically. I guess I’m. You know, in, in my businesses I got some quite clearly defined revenue goals, but because they’re for somebody else, so this is for a client I’m potentially working with and they’re part of the sales process.
[00:04:50] So again, having an interaction with somebody else, so helps you to clarify things, doesn’t it? If it’s just you and or a business partner and your interests are aligned, it, it kind of doesn’t force you into things when there are more people involved and your interests can be out of alignment, it seems, somehow, to push you into more clarity.
[00:05:06] It’s very interesting how that.
[00:05:08] JM: it is, uh, I re I can’t get the quote exactly right, but it reminds me of that quote that says something to the effect of, uh, learn to do hard things, not to, um, learn to do hard things. Don’t learn to suffer. And it seems like sometimes if we have not a real aggressive goal, like the, you know, it starts with not, with not having a goal, because then you can kinda just muddle through.
[00:05:32] It’s like, well, I don’t have a hard goal, so then, then I’m not really pushed. Then I, you know, and cuz in a way the goal will keep you accountable. You know, at least if you, if you have a clear goal, you’re like, oh, I, I knew I had a goal, I made the goal, I wanted the. I didn’t execute and let’s reboot and try it over.
[00:05:49] So, I mean, I think that’s, that’s part of it is this whole idea of, um, holding yourself accountable and a goal is a good way to do that. Having the proforma budget where you literally envision the whole year and you say, well, what’s plausible? What’s ac? What is actually achievable? And are we gonna live up to that, you know, potential reality.
[00:06:07] And, you know, in a big company, that is one of the nice parts about having a senior leadership team is sometimes they push. , like, well, no, it’s actually gonna be 17% growth this year. Really? There’s no way we can do that. You know? Um, but then you rise to the occasion, or you don’t. But nonetheless, there’s that goal that’s been imposed on you.
[00:06:25] And if you’re the leader of the organization, if you don’t do that work of imposing the goal, uh, you know, then, then it doesn’t, you know, it’s not gonna happen. Um, and it’s a tricky one because it’s like Nietzche said, uh, be careful when battling monsters, lest you become. and we’ve all had goals imposed on us that we were like, I hate this.
[00:06:41] This is stupid. This is, this is horrible. You know? But nonetheless, that is a function of the organization. Somebody has to set the bar and say, what are we trying to achieve?
[00:06:52] MV: also, it, it invokes a what? It evokes a passionate dialogue. Indeed. If, if, if somebody’s seen in a leadership says we should grow 70%, and you come back and say, that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. We’re making no profit. Now, why should we grow sales before we sought profit out or whatever it may be?
[00:07:06] Or that’s not possible. We don’t have enough people that forces senior leadership to then adjust, but still have a set of direction and say, okay, so maybe we need to put a budget for hire and more people, or we reduce the percentage goal, or whatever it may be. So then it becomes a dialogue out of which, again, a dance to your point, but it’s a dance with a leader.
[00:07:23] And I think, um, a lot of the time, How can I put this? A lot of modern life kind of culturally, and I’m not gonna fall into some giant debate that’s gonna go wrong on the internet cause I’m not interested in that. But I think a lot of modern life seems to revolve around the idea that we’re all roughly in this together and equal and whatever.
[00:07:39] Whereas in business, it’s a very hierarchical thing and I think that actually works very well. I mean, there are alternatives that are more complex that aren’t hierarchical. and that’s wonderful and it can work. But for most of us, myself included, if I’ve got somebody who’s basically in charge because they invested in a business or cuz they’re paying me as, as the client or because I owe them money, like the mortgage lender, if I’m renting out a property, then, you know, that forces me into creativity in a way that if we’re all kind of just being nice to each other doesn’t, so it’s odd how, how the things that seem like a plus point actually don’t save you and vice versa.
[00:08:12] Right. Um, I was just thinking about what I have done in terms of goals this year with, with the business. I, I actually haven’t set big revenue. Growth targets yet for amazing F B A, cuz I just felt like I’d allowed overheads and, and cost to creep up to the point where the profitability was disappointing, shall we say.
[00:08:28] So I’ve just been on a mission to cut those and there’s some of that’s been quite painful, boring conversations with my, anything from, you know, hotels or, or conference centers for hiring things, for meetings all the way through to my phone bill, which is just dull. But I’ve saved myself $600 a year or 800 or something massive by being willing to go through some ghastly chat.
[00:08:48] Sequence online, which is an example of how it’s not done, but . But you know, so that’s pretty dull. And I think once I’ve got the business much in a, in a better place, profitability wise, I’m gonna be then going for revenue growth targets. So sometimes you need to sort of retrench before you then start growing to be fair to, you know, to myself, I guess
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[00:09:53] JM: yeah, absolutely right. I mean, the goals don’t have to be revenue goals. The goals could be any number of things. I mean, there could be a lot of different goals. Um, some goals could be what you are gonna eliminate, you know,
[00:10:03] MV: Yes. I’ve done a lot of elimination recently, which has been, yeah, hard work. Eliminating is weirdly hard work, but it’s, it’s definitely a good thing to do. So I guess that brings us neat to question four. I may as well ask you since I’m, I’m there, which is question four, what are you avoiding in your business that you know you need to do, but you can’t find the courage to tackle?
[00:10:22] JM: Hmm. This is probably the toughest of the four questions. I’m not sure I can say publicly what these things are . So why am I dance around the, uh, might dance around the answer a bit, but, um, I would say that this. is a tough question, uh, to, to answer. Um, because, um, it’s not only just getting clarity on what needs to be done, but it’s, um, getting clearer on the why I’m not doing it.
[00:10:50] And is it because of a fair fear of the future? I don’t understand. Is it a fear of confront? Uh, is it fear of taking big risks or bigger risks? Uh, what, what exactly is the, uh, the reason? Um, is it laziness? You know, what, what’s, what’s holding me back from making some tough choices in the business? And that’s the piece to me, that’s a lot of soul searching.
[00:11:14] And, um, so I do have a couple things. I’m not sure I’ll say, say them , but. , but there are a couple and, and, uh, it’s, it’s, that’s been weighing on my heart and mind a lot lately. And, uh, so I guess that’s, I dunno if that’s a non-answer, but that’s, that’s
[00:11:32] MV: I think it’s, it’s just quite sort of mysterious and intriguing. I, I think also it’s a. Sort of process. Well, a couple of really important questions. It’s not just about the what, it’s the why it’s not happening and that it’s a really good, it’s, as you say, that’s quite a soul searching question cuz you’re talking about motivation.
[00:11:47] And human motivation is always subtle and you know, very personal. Um, which is a reason why a podcast is not always where you choose to work these things through, right? A one-to-one private coaching session or with your spouse or private forum. I mean, for me, I’m happy to share publicly what, what the things are I’ve been avoiding for a long time.
[00:12:03] I’ve, um, Within the amazing F B A slash 10 K collective mastermind business. I need to niche down and be clear about that. And I think the fear of that for me, I can answer this cuz it’s more superficial if you like, but still real, which is true for so many people. I’m just an example, which hopefully is useful to people listening and watching, which is, um, fear of losing.
[00:12:20] Business because you niche down. If you niche down, that implies you do A, but you don’t do A, B, C, D, E, E, F, and G like you tried to before. And of course you, you fear, you get the fear of missing out, which is kind of real to a degree. But of course if you dominate a niche, you’re gonna do better, more profitable, more expert, more trusted, all the good things.
[00:12:37] So I have to kind of find the carriers to do that. And I guess it’s partly been a habit of being too much of a generalist for too long. So that’s, uh, that’s actually doesn’t serve me in a way. My experience there, uh, is a bit of a trap rather than a a plus. It can be made into a plus. But if I allow it to, it’s a trap.
[00:12:53] And then redoing the website as part of that, the resistance there is spending money. Um, you know, it’s not, I’m not gonna spend a fortune, but, um, you know, when I’ve been trying to cut costs, which I think is right, as in monthly overheads, um, I need to be willing to invest in a one time or, you know, once every three years, uh, redo of the website.
[00:13:08] And then, um, Yeah, I think also having the courage to sort of claim the space a bit more for what I think I’m good at, which is, you know, basically turning around certain, turning around businesses, but finding, uh, more profit within the business. Um, so, you know, I need to get better at doing it, uh, like anything else.
[00:13:22] But I think I’ve already got enough. Um, You know, expertise to claim and, and success stories in terms of my clients. So it is interesting to reflect. I think my, the other reason for me why it’s not happening is simple. It’s the stuff you were talking about. There’s nobody holding me accountable and trying to do this stuff in a vacuum.
[00:13:36] To be fair, to, uh, to be fair to you and be fair to me, it’s really hard. I think the solution’s gotta be, you make me reflect on this. I like, um, um, I I hadn’t really been on my agenda for this year, but I think I’m gonna have to join some kind of mastermind or get myself a coach again. You know, I think I’m gonna.
[00:13:51] This has clarified that. What, what about you? How are you gonna overcome these issues? What’s the.
[00:13:59] JM: Yeah, I mean, it’s a great, it’s a, it is a great question. I mean, it is almost like accountability partner level stuff, you know? And, um, and I think that’s part of it. I, I think clarity of goals would help a lot for me. I think part of my question, answer to question four, what am I avoiding in my business?
[00:14:18] Part of that is narrowing my focus as well. I mean, in a way, like what you’re saying, but to me it’s like I pick up projects and. fun activities along the way in life. And then I’m as diffused in my energy more than I want to be, and that’s not really serving, you know, my highest and best goals, I don’t think.
[00:14:40] And so I think that’s, to me, part of it is getting very clear on my next five years, next 10 years, what can I accomplish in my career and what do I want that to be? You know, what is, what do I want my career’s tombstone to say on it? You. . And um, and I think that’s a vital thing to think through. And so I, I guess that’s kind of where I’m going too, is yeah, maybe accounta more accountability and more clarity on my goals.
[00:15:05] Um, and then the courage to take action. And then, you know, cuz you gotta believe in yourself. You gotta be able to say, I can make this happen. I got the energy I, the life skills, I’ve got the relationships, I’ve got the business acumen to actually step into this new direction and I can do. and part of it is a little bit of, you know, belief in yourself in a way.
[00:15:28] Not to get too hokey, but you know, sometimes we don’t hold ourselves to a high goal cuz we don’t want to fail. Cuz we don’t want to be feeling like we’re a failure, you
[00:15:37] MV: yeah. I mean, here’s what I said about motivation in a way, if. there isn’t much pain because you’re quite comfortable as you were articulating and there isn’t that much sort of, that you are seeing, that’s a big, exciting thing to pull you towards it. It’s kind of logical from the theories of human motivation and from personal experience that you wouldn’t move that much.
[00:15:57] I mean, that makes sense, doesn’t it? So in a way, um, I’m wondering whether what I need to do is the equivalent of what I’ve done with myself, which is what, um, one of my guests called a, a forcing function. So if I wanna get myself fit, I’ll, I’ll put my own self in for a half marathon that I’m not fitting enough for yet, but far enough away and then I’ll start running.
[00:16:12] Cuz I have to, cuz otherwise I’m gonna have a very, very painful day, a few months away. And so maybe I’ll need to do the same with, uh, with business. I mean, for example, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been making an excuse for myself for this . He’s not listening to this podcast, but the, the, uh, the guy that I’ve been working towards putting.
[00:16:27] A deal together with, I mean, to be fair, there are details that need sorting, but actually I could have probably have, have got it done a couple of weeks quicker if I’d really, really prioritized other things. But the truth is, part of me is quite comfortable with the fact that I’m not accountable yet. Cuz as soon as we start a deal, he’s gonna expect stuff from me and I’m gonna be working really, really hard.
[00:16:44] And part of me is like, oh my goodness, I know this is gonna be hard work. I don’t wanna do it. And then part of me is like, yeah, but you’re gonna learn so many skills and you’re gonna be risking somebody else’s, you know, capital not because I take that lightly, I take that seriously, but I’m not gonna have to ha put a ton of capital in and have it tied up for ages.
[00:16:59] Which is one of the things that I don’t like so much about the physical products, business models, um, but which I know how to run. And so there’s so many good upsides from it. It’s definitely the right thing to do, but I’m just, part of me is just being lazy cuz when I press the go button, there’s an inevitability.
[00:17:14] There’s a process as an accountability. . Um, but on the other hand, from experience, I know that’s exactly what I’ve gotta do. Like I literally just sent to myself last week hopefully for the royal Parks marathons. I run around Hyde Park in October because that’s the only thing’s gonna get me outta the house on a regular basis running.
[00:17:28] So I guess, you know, if you can find some equivalent of that, I’ve always found that really helpful
[00:17:32] JM: A forcing function. I love that phrase. That’s nice. Yeah,
[00:17:35] MV: do something that gives you no choice but to forget it. , then you’ll do stuff.
[00:17:40] JM: Yep.
[00:17:41] MV: Whether that’s something you’re gonna regret later is another
[00:17:44] JM: Yeah. Yeah. Don’t, don’t let me start it on the Chicago Marathon of 2007. That’s a whole different story, but.
[00:17:53] MV: American for you personally. No, no, no. But you know, it’s gotta be horses for course. You gotta find the right thing for you. One person’s force inflection is another person’s nightmare, so. Yeah. Well, you know, it’s gotta be. Yeah, well look interesting discussion, man. I mean, they’re very personal questions.
[00:18:06] Um, I like them a lot. Do you want just sort of summarizing and give us any sort of takeaway thoughts on that?
[00:18:11] JM: Yeah. And hopefully this has not seemed like a discouraging conversation to the listeners. Hopefully it’s been an encouraging soul searching conversation. So let me recap the [00:18:20] four questions. The first one is, what’s the big why behind your work? Why are you truly in business? Second question is, who’s holding you personally accountable, if anyone, to show up and execute as best as you can each day.
[00:18:36] Third question is, are you stretching for new goals or are you feeling satisfied and plateaued? Do you have written goals in a budget that you’re aiming for this year? The fourth question is, what are you avoiding in your business that you know you need to do, but you can’t find the courage to? So with those, thanks Michael for this great conversation today.
[00:18:58] Hopefully this is a fun one for you. It’s a little different than our usual, uh, back and forth, but to me this is very, very helpful. It’s catharsis, I guess.
[00:19:05] MV: Yeah, me too. I think they’re excellent questions for anyone to ask themselves and, uh, you know, if your conclusion is that you need help, as we both, I think for ourselves articulated quite well, it’s really hard to pull your own bootstraps up. So if you do want some help, uh, with your business, then you can check our [email protected] or omni rockett.com respectively.
[00:19:23] And, uh, . Yeah, I guess, uh, we’re good at coaching people and we gotta go and find ourselves some coaching by the sound of it.
[00:19:29] JM: Good times. Good times. All right, friends. Will, if you enjoyed the conversation, feel free to subscribe on the Player of choice. Lord, we would also love your highest and best review. Uh, if. If that’s a function on the player of choice that you use, and of course, you can find all our resources at the e-commerce leader.com. thanks again.
[00:19:47] MV: Thanks again man.
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