The E-commerce Leader

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[00:00:00] KH: all the devices you can do when you’re recruiting to find above average talent, uh, may or may not result in you actually hiring an above average, you know, talented. So therefore build a system that an average person can operate and thrive in,
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[00:02:07] MV: let’s go on to the next one.
[00:02:09] KH: Yeah. Number five and six kind of go together, and then number seven and eight kind of go together. So number five, uh, and six. So I’ll, I’ll mention five first and then, and then we can flow right into number six. But number five is expand your network.
[00:02:23] And the quality of the talent you’re able to find because it’s tied to your ability to network effectively. And I think as entrepreneurs we can get very tunnel vision. We can get very heads down just in our little corner of the. Economy and we frequently don’t get out and meet people, you know, um, and network and get to know people in other industries.
[00:02:50] And I think what can happen sometimes is, um, we become very insular in our. Pool of talent. And that’s true for W2 employees, also for contractors, for service providers. We don’t know what we don’t know. We don’t know what’s out there cuz we’re not going and meeting people in other industries or niches or people even in our own industry.
[00:03:12] Um, and so I think part of becoming better at building a team is becoming better at networking. Um, The more you do that being a part of groups in person or virtual or whatever, the more you have an opportunity to ask the simple question, does anybody know someone who’s amazing at X, y Z? Hmm. Or, does anybody know how to solve this type of problem?
[00:03:33] Uh, you know, as it relates to a business and, and what job is the right role? I mean, you’re just asking the questions. Um, get in a position where you’re part of a professional. Who can really answer that with not an amateurish, uh, answer, but a really super legit, you know, world class answer. You know, you ask.
[00:03:52] Yeah. You know, somebody at the, you know, the local diner. As you, as you’re sitting around eating breakfast, if they know anybody, that’s very different than if you’re a part of a networking group in Silicon Valley or London or wherever, where you could say, Hey, do you know a good cpa? You’ll get a very different answer if you ask your mastermind people if they know a good CPA than if you ask the morning breakfast crowd at the diner or you’re eating breakfast, you.
[00:04:17] MV: Yeah, and I guess nobody probably ask for business advice, although there’s probably somebody, but, uh, they certainly do ask in
[00:04:24] KH: Facebook. I have
[00:04:26] MV: actually really amazing. Well, you’re the person then. So, um, Facebook groups with several thousand people, most of whom have never sold anything online are similarly, probably very close to a neighborhood diner in terms the quality of.
[00:04:40] And people do that all, all the time. So yeah, I, I agree that if you can get to join a mastermind like the 10 K Collective, I will back those guys to the hill. In terms of the quality of people that refer, because they’ve used them, they’ve used some other people and can tell you who not to use just as valuable.
[00:04:54] Although it needs to peak out quite private, but you know, so you are absolutely right. I mean, I think that, um, that’s even fairly narrow. But at least it’s very specific. But as you say, just getting another thing that you can get is a sense of how hard is it to get good people for certain roles. Certain roles are not easy to get perfect, as you said.
[00:05:11] Yeah. It’s, it’s a, it’s not a precise science. Sometimes hiring people and so getting the right accountant who can really help you get in the right lawyer, that can be quite technical and quantifiable. It’s, it’s good fit, it’s bad fit, but some people you. The sense from talking to 10 other entrepreneurs in your industry, guess what?
[00:05:28] They all struggle with getting really fantastic quality control. In China, that’s just a thing. You just have to keep fighting, you know, for example. So yeah. Yeah. That gives you that perspective as well, right?
[00:05:39] KH: Totally right. Yeah. And so six, the, the six tip here rolls into that, and that is, um, it, it corresponds with number two, which was upgrade your recruiting process.
[00:05:47] So number six is level up your expectations for your. Um, you know, a lot of times we will diminish our own worth or the meaningfulness of our business. We’ll diminish, um, our kind of importance because we have, uh, maybe a mindset that says, well, this is just a little thing. Or, you know, this is not, this is not that big a business.
[00:06:09] Um, but you never know who’s willing to work for a. And you absolutely. You know, if you improve your process related to recruiting and you improve, improve your networking, you absolutely should say, Hey, is there o opportunity here for, um, me to find an A player and somebody who’s literally world class? Uh, and you know, you just shouldn’t sell yourself short.
[00:06:34] You should level up your expectations and say, no, I’m, our business is worthy of having an a. The best someone who really could crush this. And um, and so I think part of that whole process is for you to believe that in yourself and about your business. You’re not just a kitchen table entrepreneur slogging stuff, you know, out on the internet in a small way.
[00:06:58] You are a startup that has massive potential that can become a massive business and that will be super exciting to team. Um, and so I think you, you know, you do wanna begin to level up your expectation.
[00:07:17] Yeah, I like that.
[00:07:17] MV: I think it’s, it comes down to, A balance between kind of vision and self-belief versus kind of self delusion and who, who, who knows where that line is? I, I suppose what it comes down to is, I think somebody said there’s nothing wrong with building castles in the air as long as you put foundations under them, which is a bit cheesy for my taste, but I, I get what they’re saying.
[00:07:37] In other words, You. If you’ve got a big vision, fine. Yeah, but you better work really hard to make it real. Otherwise people will sniff out the, the bs. But on the other hand, you are quite right that it’s very easy to do the opposite and and think too small because you’re small right now. And so you’re right, I, I like the positivity of that.
[00:07:52] It’s is really good antidote to British cynicism as well. So talking, which then I guess that leads into the next one, doesn’t it? You talked about A players already, so tell us more about
[00:08:02] KH: A players. Yeah, I mean, I think the. Idea of believing that you could hire an A player? Um, begs the following question.
[00:08:11] Um, can you become a company that a players would love to work for? You know, there’s one thing to get an A player, the second thing to be the business that they actually are happy in and thriving in. Uh, and they’ll know it pretty fast. And so, you know, this is on us as business builders to say, how do we level up our expertise?
[00:08:29] Professionalism, our management so that when we do get a really good person, they’re, they’ll be happy that they’re, they’re leading, uh, you know, the business with you. That they’ll say, this is a great place and I’ve got excitement for the future. Um, and I’m believing in the team and the boss and the product and the vision.
[00:08:45] Um, and I’m an A player and I know it, and I’m here to make a difference. And this is a cool company. Um, and that’s a, that’s a, you know, a tall order. And, uh, you know, you, you see people come into an industry sometimes and they’ll start something, and five years later it’s multimillion dollar huge business.
[00:09:01] You see other people start at the same time and, uh, you know, five years later they’re still kind of in their basement. Hmm. Um, just eating d you know, Doritos [00:09:10] and, you know, half doing it. And um, and so what’s the difference? You know, it’s like sometimes it’s not the talent of the two people. Sometimes it’s just the vision and the ability to say, I’m gonna build a company that’s a legit operation.
[00:09:24] Um, I think you’re
[00:09:25] MV: right. I think talent’s overrated. I say this is somebody, this is gonna sound slightly arrogant, but I’m a talented person at several things that look good in school. I mean, as in, you know, high school or possibly university college level. Um, but I knew very well when I was a person getting straight A’s in school that a lot of the people around me that were getting E in F’s we’re gonna be wealthier than me, and I wasn’t deleting myself.
[00:09:45] That it, it translates into money. And I think vision and discipline are way more important than talent. Talent helps, but mm-hmm. What does that mean? I mean, you might be talented at speaking and sucker operations or vice versa, but your business is gonna have to do all of the things. They’ve gotta have somebody who’s good at marketing, you’ve gotta have operations, you’ve gotta have recruitment.
[00:10:04] You’ve got lots of bits and pieces, and nobody’s gonna get good at all of them as an individual, but if you’ve got the discipline to build the nuts and bolts of the business mm-hmm. Service of, as you said, the vision of being a sort of place that an A player would come and stick as opposed to come and go.
[00:10:20] Mm, not my kind of place. I like what you’re thinking and, and I was just thinking, I haven’t done that internally. I’ve certainly on a journey to doing that with clients. When I used to work with Raw Nebi and now I, I happily will talk to people like one of my mastermind members the other day who’s doing about four, 5 million a year.
[00:10:39] To me direct. I think he sent me a pm. He said, could you take me to 10 million? And how would you do that? Yeah. And I wasn’t able to answer that question because of hand on heart. I don’t have a plan for that, but I feel like I’m on the way there. And the fact that he’d even asked me that, I just thought, hmm, a few years ago, I wouldn’t have never even dared to speak to somebody.
[00:10:56] He could ask that question cuz I wouldn’t have felt worthy and able to serve a person like that. So you, but he clearly, he can level up
[00:11:02] KH: over time. He clearly demonstrated that he had that belief in. Coaching, consulting business acumen. Hmm. Did you have that belief in
[00:11:14] MV: your, I mean, I do to a degree. I mean, we’ve just the same person.
[00:11:17] We just managed to get him without revealing, I don’t think it reveals anything specific that I should. Didn’t, um, buy some smart negotiating with his supplier based on something that I suggested to him in the Master My meeting, uh, 78,000 pounds in free credit, which means he doesn’t have to take out a loan in order to keep his business expanding.
[00:11:32] So yeah, I’m delivering for the guy. Yeah, for sure. Is it up to 10 million? That’s a bigger asks, but yeah. So in other words, what I’m reflecting on in my own life, and it’s true for anyone listening, is that actually if you look back at where you were and the ability to grow and to level up is, is a real thing actually, even though at the time it doesn’t.
[00:11:50] Possible, I guess. Yeah, totally
[00:11:51] KH: right. Love it. Love that. Yeah. Last idea here is create incredible training so that you can hire people who are energetic, but maybe, um, you know, entry level and train them up to be your leaders of the future. And I, you know, I really, really love the idea on focus on training.
[00:12:14] I’m not sure I’m good at it in, in my business to be completely candid, but, but the reason I always think about this angle as it relates to staffing is because in my olden days as a human resources generalist, I would sometimes have a manager who would come and say, I need to hire somebody from Stanford or Yale or Harvard.
[00:12:36] I need, I need an expert, a. Like a really, really insanely smart person. I, I just have to have somebody who’s super smart and I would always challenge their thesis and say, well, first of all, you’re not gonna get somebody who’s insanely smart. Statistically, you’re gonna hire an average person. That’s what it means.
[00:12:57] You know, all the devices you can do when you’re recruiting to find above average talent, uh, may or may not result in you actually hiring an above average, you know, talented. So therefore build a system that an average person can operate and thrive in, and let the system be the solution and tr and have training so that they become expert at the trade craft.
[00:13:23] And, and, and the therefore, you can hire people who are good spirited, you know, you know, kind of upbeat, positive people who are ready to show up. And can be trained in such a way that they become really, really good at it. Um, and so I guess that’s my final commentary is, uh, all of us as managers of a business or owners of a business can do that if we’ll take the time to slow down and say, how can I help this specific person improve their trade skill?
[00:13:50] What is it that they’re lacking and made him frustrated that they’re lacking in it? But, but the job is not to be frustra. Like that’s, that’s just the emotional reaction. The job is to say, how do I help that person attain mastery? Yeah. and you know that that is the hallmark of a good operator is when you can find people who you can train up and they obtain mastery over time.
[00:14:14] Um, and you’re better off for it, obviously, as a business.
[00:14:18] MV: I think it’s absolutely true. And again, Positive thing, it’s under your control. And what I would say is I don’t think it’s ever been more true in history because, um, various big, big picture trends across economies and demographics happening.
[00:14:32] Mm-hmm. Covid has had this weird effect in the uk more than most economies of early retirement. Somehow because the way pensioners are structured, everyone just went. I’m not spending the rest of my life stuck in this job that I don’t like and left. Yeah. Baby boomers are retiring in America because they’re hitting a certain age.
[00:14:45] Yeah. So suddenly that means a load of people with a lot of decades long skillsets are removing those skill sets and that knowledge and that industry expertise from the marketplace. So those of us who are left in the marketplace really have a kind of responsibility, but also necessity to train people up because we cannot get those ready made people, even if.
[00:15:04] For graduates at the quality you could have done even three years ago, even pre pandemic, that’s just changed. Yeah. And so it’s never been more important. So what you say is even more true than ever.
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[00:16:01] KH: I think it’s also the opposite though. There’s also a lot of ambitious 18, 19, 20 year olds who were looking at job opportunities and say, there’s just no opportunity except retail or fast.
[00:16:17] Or you know, nothing. And it’s on us as business owners to say, no, no, no, we got a great entry level role in a startup or a, you know, a, a, a smaller entrepreneurial e-commerce company, and we’ll teach you everything you need to know to grow you up into a manager level or director level, or, you know, whatever.
[00:16:37] Um, and, and there’s huge opportunity there for, I think for. Um, we just have to kind of think it through and, and develop the training. Uh, so that can be beneficial to people. And I see, I see the opportunity to build teams better than never before. There’s tons of talent that’s older, mature talent that can be redeployed and reengaged, and there’s tons of hungry young people who are looking for good opportunities.
[00:17:04] Um, and the Gen Xers in the middle, if they can figure out how to be good team builders and team managers can really, really build effective companies. Um, so I, I see good days ahead for people who are willing to put in the work to build their team and to let their, build their team, build a big business for them.
[00:17:21] Yeah,
[00:17:22] MV: that’s, uh, it sort of ties in with what’s happening in the UK right now because, By necessity being the mother of invention, because the gas bail is literally as in natural gas rather than petrol is so incredibly high. A lot of people are sort of unretiring suddenly, so, mm-hmm. As you said, there’s always fluctuations in the pool of who’s available.
[00:17:38] But yeah, I, I love your positivity on this topic. Let’s just do a quick recap of your eight points for how to, you know, get over, what did you call it? Human deficiency syndrome.
[00:17:47] KH: Yeah. All right. You want me to run through ’em? Yeah. Okay. Here they are. In summary,
[00:17:52] envision a positive outcome for a team-based approach to your business.
[00:17:56] Number two, upgrade your recruiting process so you can professionally find and hire people.
[00:18:02] Number three, simplify your roles and focus them so that you can have a clear delegation and accountability system in your business.
[00:18:11] Number four, believe the best about people and give them a fighting chance. To win your trust and respect and if needed, repos, [00:18:20] position them into different roles than they started and help them flourish inside your business.
[00:18:25] Number five, expand your network so that you can identify prospects for, uh, team members in, uh, fish efficient way and find a plus players.
[00:18:35] Number six, level up your expectations for recruits. Um,
[00:18:38] number seven, become a company that a plus players would love to work for and
[00:18:43] number. Create an incredible training system so that you can hire entry level folks and train them up to be your a plus leaders and managers of the future.
[00:18:55] There you have it.
[00:18:56] MV: Like it, that’s a really positive, um, list. I like it. And there’s a lot of, um, yeah, you kind of reignited my ambition to build a good team. So I think you’ve, you’ve done that for me and hopefully you’ve done that for the listeners as well. Final thing to say, if you’re listening, thank you so much for coming along to listen to our discussion and, uh, to get Jason’s wisdom.
[00:19:14] I’m, I’m always, uh, learning the feet of a master here, and I hope you feel the same. Um, interesting thought provoking discussions of what we’re here to do. So if you like that, don’t forget, subscribe to a podcast player of your choice near you. Jason, thanks so much, man. Great as ever.
[00:19:28] KH: Thanks, man. Fun times.
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