The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] JM: You know, you get your first couple sales, you get your first couple wins, you get your, your first couple successes inside your business, and it can really, really catalyze, uh, activity.
[00:00:11] Action, hope, you know, inspiration. I mean, it’s just, it’s fuel. Uh, you know, for the big fire.
[00:00:17]
[00:00:40]
[00:01:17] JM: michael Recently there was a group of about 20 business owners that attended a small dinner that I was a part of. It’s for a local addiction, uh, recovery program. It focuses on meth and fentanyl and, um, So I wanna tell you this story as we tee up the podcast for the day. Uh, the dinner was going splendidly and it was a very nice time.
[00:01:43] Uh, we heard testimonies of some of the students who have overcome, uh, fentanyl addiction and meth addiction, and. It was really super powerful. So I was the chairman of the development committee there. And of course with that role on, I’m thinking about fundraising. And, uh, so towards the end of the, the dinner, I, you know, made a few comments and, uh, one of the business owners that was there and all of these people were basically like the leaders of the city in terms of business.
[00:02:15] One of them asked, how could we be of help? And before I could respond with a fundraising appeal of, you know, some magnitude, the director of the program said, we need toilet paper. Really like a really kind of quickly, and then one of the students that was sitting there said, and we also need trash bags and.
[00:02:41] Um, I was so taken aback and, and not to judge them or anything like that, but just I was preparing in my mind a, you know, kind of a, Hey, we need a hundred thousand dollars type, you know, type comment or, Hey, we need this or that. I, I had a little. A list, you know? Um, but their response basically was, you know, the response that the donors heard.
[00:03:03] And it got me thinking about this whole idea of poverty mindset. I’m not trying to judge them or anything like that, but I think just the basic response of their heart was what was the immediate need that they thought of. And it was, uh, you know, a very, very small, uh, ask, I guess you could say in fundraising terms.
[00:03:22] Yeah, so it got me thinking about this whole issue of poverty mindset and setting goals and what expectations you have in life. And I, we’ve never had a topic like this in the podcast, I don’t think, but I thought I’d talk to you about it since it was so sort of striking to me of, of a story. You know,
[00:03:40] MV: that’s absolutely fascinating.
[00:03:41] I, I think what I would say is, um, Being a sort former musician, I know quite a few people are in, um, alcohol recovery programs cuz a lot of musicians and, and actors, you know, almost traditionally alcoholics. Sadly. So I think there’s so much wisdom that we can gain from people who’ve been, are kind of not experts by professional choice, but by life choices they’ve had to become, if they’re like experts in how to recover from.
[00:04:04] You know, addiction and thus they have plumbed the depths of the extremes of things like poverty mentality. So I think there’s huge wisdom to be learned from that, from why be rest of us if we don’t happen to suffer from that? Um, so I think it’s super smart and yeah, we don’t talk about mindset very much because it can become a sort of, Very fluffy, very quickly, kind of, but that sounds to be very concrete, very real, very, um, what’s the word?
[00:04:25] Very immediate. Um, so I like this a lot. So, so let’s dig into the topic. So what do, what do you mean by poverty mindset in the first place? That’s obviously the, the words that sprang to your mind from somebody asking for toilet paper. Yeah. What
[00:04:36] JM: does that mean to you? Well, you know what I did afterwards, after I started sort of just meditating on it and thinking about it, was, uh, of course ask, uh, perplexity.ai.
[00:04:46] And chat G b t both, uh, about the phrase, cuz that was the phrase that came to my mind. Um, and, and asked them to define what it was. And this list of 10 things we’re gonna share was sort of initially generated from perplexity, but, um, but, but the, the basic concept is a poverty mindset is a way of thinking that can be en reinforced by family and social conditions.
[00:05:11] Uh, living in poverty can impact the way you make decisions. Interact with people and see the world and on a personal level or individual level, uh, we can become limited or trapped by low expectations. And I, you know, I just, I think that’s fascinating. I, I, I’m not saying that poverty is mental. That’s certainly not true.
[00:05:34] I just got back from Zambia and there’s a whole host of factors that go into people being in desperate poverty. It’s certainly not just mindset, so that’s not what I’m saying at all. But I think this idea of a poverty mindset is something to think about. And that is the question, are we creating a context in which our mind in which we set ourselves up for very low expectations?
[00:05:55] Um, and so, so that we, and we in essence, get what we. Expect, you know, so I think that’s the idea that I’m trying to mine here or kind of pull out, you know, as we think about
[00:06:08] MV: it. Yeah. And, um, yeah, that’s certainly the most striking thing from the story you told. Like you were about to say, we need to raise a hundred thousand dollars or whatever it is.
[00:06:15] I plucked a figure in the air. Yeah. But mm-hmm. And, and you were, and they said, need, you know, 10 rolls of toilet paper. And it, it reminds me a little bit of the, the panic that’s setting during the pandemic. People can sometimes get weirdly, Low obsession, shall we say. You know, and, and I’m, again, I’m not judging.
[00:06:33] Um, I just think it, it’s worth everybody catching themselves at it. Cause I think we’re all capable of it. I mean, I, I say we, I, I’m certainly capable of that. I notice, you know, a few of the things you’ve outlined, what the behavior, um, looks like and some of those things I can identify with my myself. So tell me, talking of which, what, what do you say perhaps in more everyday life would a poverty mindset look like?
[00:06:53] How does that show up? Yeah.
[00:06:54]
[00:07:43] JM: Yeah. And again, I asked perplexity AI this question, so this is sort of the AI generated assistant here for us, but I asked that question, what, what does the poverty mindset do in practical terms to, to us, if we’re thinking that way? Um, and so this is an interesting list. I’ll just rattle ’em off and then you can pop, pop in on any of these that you revisit them, the ones that you like, uh, uh, a frugality, uh, mindset and not wanting to spend money, feelings of hopelessness.
[00:08:10] About your situation. Limited self-belief, low expectations of yourself and others. A focus on immediate gratification and short-term thinking, avoidance of long-term planning. A belief that opportunity for advancement is scarce and even unattainable to you being timid and not boldly asking for help because you feel unworthy of it or that you wouldn’t be able to get it.
[00:08:36] Asking small because it seems impossible to receive big discomfort with large amounts of money. Self-sabotage related to cash and assets to maintain a lower than necessary social status and avoid the discomfort of stress related to managing large amounts of money are assets. So I think those are pa, they’re, they’re emotional.
[00:09:01] In a lot of ways, right? There are emotional response to, uh, you know, goals and assets and money and [00:09:10] expectations.
[00:09:11] MV: I think what’s interesting, um, is what you made a very clear difference, which I, I think I’m grateful cuz there is, there is a strand of thinking is too strong a word for it, but a strand of, um, discourse in the Americans.
[00:09:23] Of public discourse around money, that sometimes seems to imply that poverty is a result of mindset. And as you said, there is more than one factor. I’m glad you said that. Having said that though, I think the fact that it’s mindset based is, for me, gives me a starting point of a feeling of hope because that is a changeable, it’s an inside job hard to do, I think, by the way.
[00:09:40] Mm-hmm. But doable. So, um, that’s the first thing that strikes me. The other things I just identify with. Just to kind of hopefully break the ice for anyone who’s listening, thinking, oh, some of that’s me. I mean, avoidance of long-term planning, that, that’s definitely a thing that I do. And a lot of entrepreneurs do that, and I wonder whether they’re, I’ve always thought that’s because they’re impatient, but maybe there is a degree of kind of fear that they’re not worthy and it’s gonna get taken away from them.
[00:10:04] I, I’ve certainly experienced that in my mind. Um, Asking small because it seems impossible to too big. I mean, I’m definitely fall into that and, and again, I see that a lot with business owners that they get stuck in operations instead of going, okay, but how would you engineer a 10 million exit? Nevermind, you know, should you order more toilet paper for your staff?
[00:10:21] Toilets literally had a, remember the, uh, the Mastermind said that they couldn’t come into the meeting because their staff were rebelling cuz there wasn’t enough toilet paper. So there seems to be a toilet theme here. So, you know, those, those are kind of things that strike me. I mean, are there things that you identify with or that, that you see in your clients?
[00:10:39] JM: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, several of these stood out to me, in fact, that little story about that dinner, it really, and again, I, it sounds judgmental as I’m describing it, but honestly, my first responses were about my own behavior. I just, I saw it and then I asked the question, do I do that? You know, for our charity, Know, I’m, I’m tasked with raising the money.
[00:11:03] And the first thing I thought was, do I do that? And I talked to Cinnamon about it and she said, yeah, sometimes you do. She said, you’ve been in fundraising situations with donors and you said, we don’t need money for the charity. And she said, I always think, why is he saying that? Um, but is it because I, um, I’m trying to defer any kind of hope or, you know, big.
[00:11:29] Ambitious outcome, and there’s a real tension here, isn’t there? Because on the one hand, you don’t wanna be perpetually unhappy with where you’re at and kind of greedy for more constantly. On the other hand, if you don’t ever strive and have goals and reach and stretch and push through, then you won’t ever take big steps towards your.
[00:11:52] Life goals and for your family and community and for the world. And so there’s this tension of, it’s not greed, but it’s hope. Yes. And there’s something there that really challenges our mindset and says, no, you, you, you know, complacency and just being comfortable with where you’re at. There’s something not right about that.
[00:12:14] You know, hope demands that we take action and. We get after goals and we have bigger expectations for ourselves and, and for what’s gonna happen in the world. And, and there’s a real tension there where it’s not greed, it’s not avarice, it’s not. In a negative thing, but it’s a positive thing. Um, yeah.
[00:12:33] MV: That we strive for.
[00:12:34] By the way, that’s, that’s the tweetable, right? That hope demands that we take action. That’s a very positive statement. And that’s different from you can make a million bucks or you can get a Ferrari or, or, or, you know, name the car or, or whatever. I mean, for you, I dunno how, how close your faith is to you and, and how your charity means a lot to you.
[00:12:50] And different people are driven by different things. I mean, closest I have to your religious faith, I guess my relationship to music, but what, whatever it is, um, It may not be a financial driver, but that doesn’t mean that we have to, as you say, kind of get complacent or, or maybe kid ourselves that we are happy with things as they are.
[00:13:06] I mean, I think mm-hmm. There’s, there’s that, I suppose, different types of happiness they talk about on there, there’s contentment and satisfaction and I think there’s are slightly different con on, there’s pleasure as well. So pleasure sort short term I guess. Um, but the, the contentment of being okay with what you got now and being grateful for what you have, as you say, really important.
[00:13:24] Um, but equally, Setting yourself hard goals, challenging goals, and then looking back and going, we did that is I think, also a part of happiness, isn’t it? As you said, there’s a bit of a tension there, but I, I think they’ve both gotta be part of the make somehow. I think you’re right. Somehow you can’t just have one.
[00:13:39] Yeah,
[00:13:39] JM: totally agree. Yeah. So, so this is, this is our challenge as business owners and as you know, breadwinners, I guess for our family, for our, you know, community. Um, do we operate with a poverty mindset or do we operate with an aspirational? Goal and plan and desire to do more, do better.
[00:13:57] You
[00:13:57] MV: know, I think that’s one other thing, but I mean, we’re gonna, we’re gonna get into how to overcome it in a second, which is really important.
[00:14:03] But I think another thing that is important is to say, um, What does this do to the other people around you? Or that you, not necessarily physically with you, but that you put out on a podcast, for example, that you influence. And I think having a bigger, bolder mindset is instantly more attractive. And that can go very badly wrong if you’re trying to sell to people.
[00:14:23] The idea that everyone’s gonna get happy by buying a Tesla and living on a beach with a laptop, I, I think you’re selling people into something that won’t make them happy. But on the other hand, if you have. In your case, you’ve got a charity with what, 40, 50 volunteers. You’re always off to Zambia helping people.
[00:14:38] I hugely admire that, that inspires me. I, I don’t run a charity and I’m not necessarily gonna do that, but it reminds me if nothing else that it’s possible that, that it’s, yeah. You know, part of the generosity of having is to give back and that’s, for me, a great reason to have money, is to be able to be generous, to be able to not have to nickel and dime it and, and so that it does have an effect on other people.
[00:15:00] You know how bold we are in our
[00:15:02] JM: thinking, I think. Yeah. We have 1,054 volunteers around the world and 96 employees in Zambia. Amazing. That’s so, but is that enough? No. We gotta get bigger, man. We gotta do more. There’s a lot of program work we need to do there, and there’s, you know, literally schools are waiting for us to bring our programs to them.
[00:15:23] And, uh, so I, I gotta stretch. We gotta get after this, man. There’s, we gotta get more and better. You know,
[00:15:30] MV: this guy called Jason Gile said, hope, demands that we take action. I, I really like that. I think that should be a tagline somewhere on your posters.
[00:15:38]
[00:16:26]