The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Kyle: Hacks are not gonna be the thing that sort of has long term survivability and longevity in your business. You have to fundamentally just become a very solid marketer across the board.
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[00:01:04] Michael: ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the callin show. The hot takes with our expert panel. Jason Miles, from California, with exciting internet and Kyle Hema over also on the west coast of the United States I’m over here in London, England. Today, we are talking about external keyword traffic to marketplaces Google SEO to Amazon. That’s my boring kind of Germanic version. Jason’s version is much sexier, which is using Google to create an unfair advantage on Amazon, which is what we all want. We all want an unfair advantage.
[00:01:31] So that’s the topic today. Kyle and Jason, welcome to the show. Let’s get cracking with this. Let’s get rolling. Kyle, you have worked with some clients on this stuff. Yeah. Thanks man. Happy to be here. Yeah. Good to have you here as well. So the vagaries of international, web, traffic permitting, as long as we can keep broadcasting here, Kyle, tell us a bit about what you’ve seen of yourself or your clients doing this stuff.
[00:01:53] How does it work?
[00:01:53] Kyle: I think Amazon’s always favored high quality traffic to. Their site and getting more of it, right? Who, what website doesn’t want to have high quality traffic being sent to it. And so a Amazon’s algorithm essentially rewards that behavior. And so as long as you’re using what would be termed as like a clean URL, you’re not using anything that’s been tainted by previous bad action. Cuz Amazon just tracked that. So essentially when you’re sending traffic from a Google, from a YouTube, from us Facebook. Instagram TikTok any of those social platforms, high quality blog traffic as well. Yeah. Would qualify.
[00:02:33] And that’s going, and that’s linking from that source to your storefront, to your product pages on Amazon, as that traffic comes in, you will see a lift in relevancy. And that can translate into higher organic, position in search, which then translates to hopefully sales for you as long as you’re converting.
[00:02:56] So then the idea behind it is, how do you engineer, how do you build processes and systems to get that high quality traffic to your, Amazon listings and to like your storefront page and all those fun things. The big picture is you get rewarded for taking good behavior and good actions, which is sending good high quality traffic.
[00:03:16] And there’s definitely some ways to do that for sure. I’m happy to, we can talk about a number of them, today for sure.
[00:03:22] Michael: Amazing. Yeah. That’s, a nice explanation of how it works and yes, the provide being, it’s gotta be an untainted URL, very important because Amazon is pretty judgemental and rightly because there are a lot of bad actors on any platform.
[00:03:34] Google’s been fighting off, various forms of attempted fraud for two decades. Amazon’s been doing it for similar length of time, especially when Nate had the third party market. So I would say, couple of things, when, first of all, what I’ve seen with clients is that it can work. It’s a real thing.
[00:03:49] It’s not just a theory. The thing I’ve seen, that’s very interesting for me is that I’ve had a couple of clients who’ve done it, but they’re important external agency and the external agencies run by one of the other members. Who’ve. Their mastermind and they’ve blown up the agency in their last year from about six employees a year ago to 20 now.
[00:04:06] So they’re really gunning for this. So they have a lot belief in this as we’ve got a sort of in-house expert in this, in fact, I haven’t had a chance to pick his brain, cuz he’s been so busy, like yourself, generating children and generating an agency at the same time that , he’s not had the time to come to the mastermind recently, but certainly lots of insights come from him.
[00:04:22] So I would say, Using an external agency that you trust and understands both sides of the equation is really helpful. And both sides being the Google SEO side and the Amazon SEO and how it actually translates to sales on Amazon. So my experience is that in, in general, it’s a really good thing.
[00:04:39] So that’s my hot take. I’ve got some further thoughts on the back of conversations I’ve had with that guy who he’s called Ashley Pierce, of, future state media. I should name him cuz he’s doing great stuff for our guys. So that’s my take on it. And Jason. Internet permitting. Do you have any thoughts on this or insights for your work with clients or your own work?
[00:04:49] Kyle: I don’t know if the
[00:04:49] Michael: internet is permiting looks like the internet is not permitting at the moment. well bringing Jason out as in when that permit. Jason is living the dream moving to California, but of course, part of that is dealing with horrible internet, which is pretty much, I need digital note Madding anywhere, including it seems in the United States.
[00:04:49] Responses are second takes on that, Kyle cause obviously there’s a bit more nuance than we’ve just outlined,
[00:04:54] Kyle: yeah. I would say that there’s a couple of ways to go about this too. One is you can focus on organic high quality traffic, right? One underused, resource is the Google listing, like the Google, my business listing.
[00:05:07] There’s no reason why you can’t create a listing for your brand on Google. If you have a physical address, you will have some level of physical address. You have to have one you’re gonna sell on Amazon. And you can then link that, that Google listing to. Products and to your Amazon stores, your website, right?
[00:05:25] And that’s something that Google values and will rank highly for it. So that’s an like example of organic, Google traffic. Now, are you gonna get a ton of it? Probably not, but it, it’s a cumulative thing. You start to build and staff things into that. But one, I guess the other way that I’ve seen this really work effectively as of late, is just actually paid traffic.
[00:05:45] So using go Google search. To drive very targeted keyword traffic to your product pages and to your storefront. And the beauty of it is that you don’t have to actually only generate a sale. Like oftentimes when you run traffic or something, like you’re always focused on, what’s the a cost, like what’s the ROI and that’s true.
[00:06:06] but there’s a halo effect that occurs when this is done properly to where, your organic traffic will actually expand. And I actually just did a case study on this in may. And, I saw a 17% lift in organic traffic in actually organic sales, on Amazon across four ASINs, by using this exact same strategy.
[00:06:27] And it all, that’s all we did for that month and we didn’t do anything new. It was just. Here let’s test this. And, we spend a ton of money to do it, but it had an exponential lift. So those types of strategies absolutely. Should.
[00:06:40] Michael: Yeah, I was gonna say just, on that, what I think is beautiful about this strategy is it leverages the nature of the different platforms.
[00:06:46] So Google view rank on Google, through paid ads. You’re not supposed to rank on the, organic results and whether that’s true or not is a hotly debated when on Amazon, there’s no such division at the moment. Give it a couple of years. And the, the antitrust legislation in America may kick in, but at the moment, That’s not the case, meaning that you can basically use, clicks or let alone sales, even if no sales are good, click through weight.
[00:07:08] And it’s love of Amazon’s love of external traffic to boost rankings, which as you say, will give you the visibility to then get future sales. And that’s after all what we do when we pay a lot of money on Amazon ads or by reducing the cost of the products in a launch costs a lot of money as well. So we’re all as Amazon sellers.
[00:07:24] Normally in my experience, we. Private label or custom product sellers. Anyway, when you launch, you spend a lot of money to get ranking. So this is just an alternative approach. So that strikes me as very logical. Jason, what are your thoughts on this? You’re not such a sort of Amazon focused guide, but obviously you are an expert on Google traffic over the years.
[00:07:39] So what are your thoughts on this?
[00:07:41] Jason: yeah, there’s a hack that I really appreciate that our clients, frequently take advantage of, or have taken advantage of in some occasions. And that is, getting earned media basically through large internet, content providers. So the one I’m thinking of specific specifically as the dot dash company, they have a collection of internet websites that massive.
[00:08:03] Send traffic. We literally just got an email this morning from a coaching client who shared a link and his product on Amazon is featured in a Listal as like the best overall game or whatever, with the link going to, to, to his Amazon, item. Now that will. Because that’s happened to our company as well.
[00:08:27] Pixie fair and other clients have received the same treatment from the dot dash corporation. It sends a massive amount of traffic. It is a king maker, if you will. And so to the extent that you can organize earned media, and I would just say to any seller of a like private label product on.
[00:08:47] go look to see what, dot dash articles exist in your niche or category. They create listicles and, they sh they publish the author name. With a link, you can email them. So you could simply say, Hey Emily, Hey, Christine, I love your article. I’m also in that space and actually have more reviews than anyone else.
[00:09:10] Or next time you update this article, please check out this product as well because whatever, make your case for it. You never know. You certainly could just approach the person who’s making that listical and they could feature you and you will have traffic. Like a landslide to your product.
[00:09:27] And that will trigger all sorts of benefits, not just the traffic itself, click through from the article, but to Kyle’s point all the other algorithmic benefits and boosts of such, behavior, cuz it’s a super high quality, Pretty extremely
[00:09:44] Michael: cool thing. I remember you talking about that before on the deep dive podcast that we’ve done about dot dash and, yeah. To combine that. I think we talked about that more to for DTC sites. So to combine that with the Amazon, ability to convert traffic into sales, and that sounds quite extraordinary.
[00:10:00] What’s nice about that is it has, my experience. Influencer marketing. And that’s not exactly the same thing, but it’s something of the flavor of it is that, that you have to work very hard. And again, Ashley Pearon guy who works incredibly hard. He’s got a background as a mechanical engineer and I can relate to that.
[00:10:14] My grandfather and my uncle are when engineers in. He says that engineering’s a condition, not a profession is the joke they have apparently. So he is given to creating complex things. And then he’s the kind of crash test done for the rest of the group. And he has done in the past a lot of. Like about 12 influence at the same time, driving traffic to a listing.
[00:10:33] And what I, what can happen is you get a great boost, which if you get the timing, which is hard to engineer, it’s great for launch, but for an ongoing solution to the, how do I get traffic? How do I get sales? How do I get ranking questions? It strikes me that having a link to a blog is a much more satisfactory, answer to that.
[00:10:48] Kyle, what’s your take on that? Have you, how does this compare with other external traffic sources going to Amazon or for that matter other market
[00:10:55] Kyle: What I love about having something like adopt dash or the spruce, and they’re the whole family of websites that they have with it is that if they lock you in, they do a really good job of SEO.
[00:11:05] Like they rank really high, for their searches organically. And so people click in, they go to those pages and then they click over, using affiliate links typically to Amazon. Now what’s really fascinating to this. To me on this whole concept is, Amazon essentially, measures. So we talked about not URLs being created equal, right?
[00:11:26] There are clean URLs that are seen as good actors, and there are bad URLs that are seen as bad actors. And if you’ve tried to send traffic from a nanny chat or anything like that from messenger in the past, couple of years, you’ve seen that hack, disappear essentially, cuz it.
[00:11:41] Traffic was seen as dirty or not at a clean URL anymore. But what is what’s great is that Amazon measures the benefit of the, that traffic, to its to, to the benefit of Amazon’s company as a whole previously. So it’s rated, right? So for example, Google has sent a lot of buyers to Amazon over the last, 20 years.
[00:12:01] So it has a high weighted value for its. , the spruce sends a lot of buying traffic to Amazon. A lot of customers come over. So therefore it gets a higher rated, or higher weighted, valuation in terms of how to rate that traffic. The biggest takeaway from this is that one ex the right external traffic can really move the needle for you.
[00:12:20] And, and honestly as well, it traffic from like the Facebooks, the Googles, the YouTubes, the talks actually is gonna be higher weighted or better traffic than even sponsored ads. Because Amazon’s gonna reward that traffic at a higher level than even their own internal traffic, cuz it’s coming from an outside trusted source.
[00:12:39] That’s proven to provide new customers, in the past to the platform. Nice,
[00:12:44] Michael: great. Jason, you’re welcome to, to shop in at any point, if you feel that your Internet’s gonna behave itself Just gonna say on that. Very interesting what you were just saying, Kyle, so that, I guess there’s a kind of two things that we traditionally associate with Google that obviously going on Amazon, but we mostly, haven’t had to think about it, which is domain authority.
[00:12:55] And obviously Google has incredible domain authority for anybody else on the internet. And so does things like the spruce or dot dash or any of these other huge C. But the it’s a kind of cascading Goodwill, isn’t it? Normally most internet marketing funnels, I saw cascade of terrible conversion percentages, meaning that you get north 0.1% of 10,000 things at the front.
[00:13:13] But if you have Google, the most trusted thing on the internet for finding information for anybody. Sending traffic to, somebody like dot dash, which is very trusted by Amazon. And then Amazon is trusted by the consumers and then getting incredible conversion rates. That feels to me like a sort of, an very unusual thing in instant marketing, which is a funnel where, it’s instead of narrowing precipitously, it’s quite wide open.
[00:13:35] So you could end up with, I guess that’s the effect that, that Jason was talking about, right? The the crazy amounts of, traffic that can result. And have you seen, how does this, it sounds like my. I cast in the air as it were. Is that something you’ve seen or gotten the evidence for this way of thinking?
[00:13:49] Kyle: Yeah, for sure. So what essentially can start to occur with that, right? Is you can use Amazon attribution. Which is they’ve had it in beta for years, but essentially they’ve rolled it out to everybody who is brand registered now. But attribution is essentially Amazon’s ability to track external traffic and report that to you as a seller.
[00:14:12] Like they obviously can track all of their own metrics internally, but they haven’t really surfaced that. Except in the last couple of years through have through Amazon’s attribution program. So what you’re doing is you’re actually using, specific tracking URL. For your external traffic. So if you’re running Google ads or Facebook ads, or, influencers on TikTok or whatever you’re gonna do, you’re gonna have a unique campaign URL.
[00:14:34] That’s gonna be assigned to it. They’re gonna use, and that’s gonna then literally track that traffic coming in and you can see have the impact on your sales and you can begin to track it. Through that platform, which is essentially one of the missing pieces for extending external traffic to Amazon in the past.
[00:14:50] It’s been a black box. If you had tried it, you could test it and you would see things anecdotally start to work or not work, or what was this converting or not converting, but now literally you can down to, so for example, if you’re gonna run a Google ad with a search.
[00:15:06] You can actually get search term level granularity like you would in sponsored ads and running that traffic over and seeing whether or not it’s converting. The other thing I’ll add to that is that Amazon’s not only in as incentivizing this with organic ranking and love to your listing, but it’s also now offering a referral.
[00:15:26] A brand referral bonus. Meaning what they’re gonna do is typically on Amazon, you’re gonna pay 15%, right? As a, as a referral fee across for every sale that you make. And it varies a little bit from category, but in general, 15%, if you are using the brand referral bonus program as a brand registered seller, Amazon’s actually gonna credit back to you up to 10% of that 15% referral bonus.
[00:15:49] If you send external traffic through using an Amazon attribution, To your products and it converts. So essentially you get a BA a credit back, to send external buying traffic. So you get the net benefit of organic lift and good traffic. Plus you can actually track sales and you can really optimize it efficiently to make it.
[00:16:08] It probably won’t be as comparable to safe sponsored ads. If you’re running them. Scaling it up and you have really good, a cost number we’ve talked about before the cost of advertising, but you can make it to be fairly competitive with it. And honestly, it doesn’t even matter. Even if you run it at a break, even the net benefit is you’re getting more and more traffic coming in.
[00:16:27] That’s external. And so there’s some love that occurs there. That’s the way you would structure it is you would basically use Amazon attribution links, use the Google, search. Campaigns right. With the keywords and then track to see what you’re doing from an organic standpoint. And then what sales you’re converting.
[00:16:43] Michael: Nice. It it feels really a big change to me. And Amazon’s always played its card very close to its chest. And it’s been incredibly, it’s been such a black box. Even for example, organic impressions on Amazon, we don’t get that data. We get sessions and everyone obsesses about it because it’s what they see.
[00:16:56] But you have to assume that there’s data behind that, that we’re not seeing it. And yeah, this feels incredibly unusual for Amazon to be this open. And also what I think’s incredible is what if you just nailed down is that. , they are actually rewarding you for using attribution, which is really unusual.
[00:17:14] Cause normally they just don’t wanna let anyone know. They don’t want to let you know who your customers are or so I think it’s a really amazing relationship change almost to me. And, yeah, that’s very powerful. And I, as you said, any situation where you can attribute things accurately, then you don’t need to base, whether you should do it on, I heard it on a podcast.
[00:17:31] It’s I heard it on the podcast. It’s worth trying out. So the quality of the hypothesis. Needs to be there. And you are a great example of the fact that is a quality hypothesis and Jason’s point as well. Both very powerful reasons to try it out, but then you don’t have to guess whether it’s working now.
[00:17:46] Thank goodness. It’s it sounds so obvious when he’s used to running Google as your own site, and yet. In the Amazon universe, that feels very different to me. I would say, I guess if I’m putting another hot take in here, wrapping this up a bit, depending whether we can get Jason back, great contribution anyway.
[00:18:01] I would say just a bit of a reality check. So I was speaking to Ashley Pierce the other day, who, as I say, a scaled, an agency to about 20 people who specialize in Google SEOs, who specifically Google organic traffic to, through, they’ve got a team of writers now, which is why it’s expanded so fast, who create, quality blog content, that’s SEO, optimized for SEO, and then send the traffic on mostly to.
[00:18:24] Amazon, listings, even though the owners of most of the businesses he’s working with would have their own direct to consumer sites. They recognize that the conversion percentages are such. If it’s gonna make economic sense, it probably means getting to Amazon, at least initially. Now the interesting thing is he’s been talking to me about the updates.
[00:18:41] I dunno if you’ve seen this, but he said that Google’s been playing with updates and the organic rankings for a lot of his client site and his own sites has been pretty much of a yoyo recently. So that is one of the things that. Be interested to hear if you’ve heard about this, but that’s one of the general things I would make is that we’re always vulnerable to somebody’s algorithm.
[00:18:57] So if you’re getting traffic from Google SEO, you maybe get the Google slap as they call it friendly way. Apart from the fact there’s not quick wins, if you’re doing go organic SEO and it, It’s, it takes time, but also I would say there’s no such thing as free. And I think one has to be real about that.
[00:19:12] And anyone’s employing an agency it’s obvious it’s not free, but the opportunity cost of doing it yourself, I think is something that people overlook. And I think that’s. Sketchy, accounting, because just, cuz it doesn’t appear on a profit and loss account doesn’t mean it’s not real. It’s just harder to put a value on it.
[00:19:27] But I, I think that’s the main thing I would say on that. Jason, how are you placed any thoughts that you’d like to, to Chuck into the party here?
[00:19:35] Jason: Yeah. Never get low internet, quality services in California, everybody bad, or don’t couch serve. I’m just kidding. My Internet’s so bad. I can’t really participate in the conversation. So you guys have crushed it
[00:19:47] Kyle: as always.
[00:19:48] Jason: This has been great. And,
[00:19:49] Kyle: See, just, yeah.
[00:19:51] Michael: Great. So awarding from the edge there.
[00:19:53] Yeah, just, yeah. I’ve spoken to people for not over the globe for this podcast. And I have to say that, Bali, Mexico have so far beaten California for internet quality. So it’s not always about location, but yeah, joking apart. I think, what you were saying, Jason was, is fantastic with the doubt or the spruce, kind of way of thinking.
[00:20:10] And to your point, Kyle, with your more technical hat on, I think this does feel like. Not just another opportunity, but possibly something that could be a bit of a step change. If done, right? Yeah. What do you think
[00:20:21] Kyle: is this exaggerated or is it no, I think it’s definitely, it needs to be a change in strategy.
[00:20:26] So think about the iterations as a seller on Amazon, where there one point where you could literally, if you could fog a mirror and put a product on Amazon, you could make money. , 2014. 2013, even up to 2015, then it started to get a little more competitive. And you were essentially paying for reviews at that point, right?
[00:20:46] You could launch a product just pretty much by paying people to go buy your product and leave reviews and you get, get some traction. You could get launched, you could run some ads and you would be good to go, over time that shifted and changed. And then you saw this big push to this rebate giveaway model.
[00:21:04] Where you’re giving away products and you then rebate people. And that was the whole ecosystem that kind of expanded and grew, and a lot of these Amazon aggregators out there. So that was their whole like core business of how they grew brands. Last November, Amazon changed their tos, literally cut off software providers, that were doing that and said, Nope, you don’t get any more access to, any of these APIs or anything.
[00:21:28] You’re. . And so that has forced this shift now it’s how do you rank a product? Because you do have a cold start problem on Amazon. When you launch a new product, nobody knows, where your product’s not even indexed. Let’s be honest when you first get launched on Amazon, until you start to get some sales, intraction, you’re not even be found in search.
[00:21:46] And then you also have the, getting reviews and the social proof around it. How then do you start to launch these products? So I would say that this particular strategy and focusing in on sending external traffic is a great way to get exposure, get launched, out of the gate. So using you can use Google ads at a low budget.
[00:22:06] you can leverage influencer marketing, right? Even if you work with only four or five influencers, if you’re pointing them to a launch, you can engineer it. You just have to be, you have to plan ahead. You have to make sure you have your influencers. You have a launch date and you collaborate with that.
[00:22:20] You can use that. I would also say the other sort of huge elephant in the room talking about external traffic and this isn’t specific to Google necessarily that you can absolutely use Google to build it. Isn’t your own email? Like that’s gonna be something that you no, like algorithm isn’t gonna take away from you, right?
[00:22:37] Like you’re not gonna be dependent upon organic SEO rankings on Google. If you own an email list that actually knows likes and trusts you and, and have buyers on it, you can point that to your website. You can point that to your Amazon launch and all, and these things stacking together, I think are how people are finding the most successful launching products.
[00:22:55] Right now, on Amazon as a platform
[00:22:57] Michael: Yeah, I I love it. I, this is great. It’s one thing to be optimistic, but it’s another thing to have really concrete proven path to testing stuff and then you can prove for yourself. And I that’s, what’s exciting to me is that Amazon is, opening the kimono a bit in, in that UN lovely phrase and letting us see what’s going on behind there.
[00:23:14] Kyle: I think they’ve had to, I think they’ve seen and felt pressure from shop. I think that’s been the feedback driver from this is you have big brands that are like, Hey, we have Shopify store. We paying Amazon for sales at 15% for referral. Why would we wanna send our own traffic to it?
[00:23:29] Obviously, if we can, work on our own conversion, and get it up there, like that is, is the net benefit there. And so I think. Amazon seeing that. I think Walmart’s also aggressively, re giving back some of that referral bonus for external traffic as well. So I think they saw what was happening around them and said, Hey, we gotta get in this game and really incentivize it.
[00:23:48] And so it’s just the nature of the market.
[00:23:50] Michael: great. Which says to me, this is here to stay because the external dynamics of forcing Amazon to do it rather, it’s just an experiment they’re running and gonna shut down in three months. Fantastic. That’s really good to hear, my take on this just to bring this home is it feels like back to the future.
[00:24:03] Back to the, the future is a echo of the past. Was it mark Twain said that the history doesn’t, history doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes. Google SEO and email marketing, who would’ve thought it, that we’re talking about the original and, and I was gonna say original and best but original anyway, internet marketing sessions.
[00:24:19] And, what I think is interesting is that as Amazon has matured, it’s not exactly AED the development of Google, but, and I guess I consciously COPI. In the earlier days. But I think they’ve ended up going something of the similar sort of roots because it comes down to trust. If you have a system where you can run a bunch of ads and buy traffic, then you’re gonna lose the trust of the consumers who run the whole system, even though the money comes from the advertisers for Amazon these days.
[00:24:46] But the ultimate thing that runs. Is really the consumers who buy the goods on Amazon. So you’ve gotta keep that trust. And I think if I go through all the sort of history of iterations of the platforms, you said organic, then buying ads, then the rebate and giveaway model, and now getting external traffic, a lot of it comes down to trust or pulling on trusted sources.
[00:25:06] So if you’ve got a quality URL from the spruce that is trusted by consumers, Amazon’s happy to take it. So in the end, a lot of it comes down to the same thing, which is the customer obsession, and then looking. Amazon’s response to its competitors. And I think those two things are for me solid ground, because they’re not gonna change over time.
[00:25:24] If you like, I’m looking for the generalities that are gonna stick over time. Rather than being with those podcasts that says this is the latest hack. And then in three months time, it changes. Cuz I think that’s quite depressing. And I think this is, got some real momentum behind it. Hopefully you’re gonna stick a bit better than the search find buy thing, which as we all know is now actually banned. So I’ve interviewed so many people in the past who podcast guests, and they’re just everything they’re offering is now just redundant. And hopefully this has got some future. Look, we better wrap it up there.
[00:25:50] Any final, ten second summary for everyone, Kyle. Cause you’ll you seem very on the case list, two,
[00:25:55] Kyle: two really important things. One, I think it really forces you to fundamentally build a solid brand because if you’re sending external traffic, you have to be thinking about your brand off of Amazon.
[00:26:07] Just step sticking a label on something, isn’t gonna get it done. It’s not gonna make it happen. And so I think you have to be thinking about your brand as you really start to scale that up. And then two, I think it also forces you to fundamentally just become a better marketer. Like you can’t just get away with hacks.
[00:26:27] Hacks are not gonna be the thing that sort of has long term survivability and long longevity in your business. You have to fundamentally just become a very solid marketer across the board. And I think those are the two sort of fundamental shifts that this is causing and where they’ve gotten rid of all that stuff.
[00:26:43] Michael: Yeah. And once again, I would say it’s like back to the future for me in a, I dunno if that’s the right phrase, but it, more of the same, because there’s been such a movement since I’ve come into the Amazon world in 2014, again, of those two lines. Getting a real brand and being better, marketer has been a pressure upon us.
[00:27:01] So the benefit of the consumers, to do both those things. And I don’t think that’s really changed in a way. So I guess it comes down to a lot of the things which is, developing the skills and developing the quality of what you’re offering over time. As Jason puts it, the sort of craft skills of the e-commerce, leader.
[00:27:16] So folks, if you’ve enjoyed today’s show just a final couple of things to say, first of all, thank you so much for watching or listening wherever you are. Do join us in the call in app, which is a cool new app. Unfortunately, I believe only for iPhone, at the time of recording, where we are every Tuesday morning, 8:00 AM, Pacific time, 11:00 AM, Eastern time or 4:00 PM UK time.
[00:27:36] If that’s where you’re listening, of course do join us on one of our. Podcast platforms as well. Spotify seems to be really growing every month. Relentlessly, we’re getting more and more followers there, which is great. We just passed a bit of a milestone in, listeners and downloads as well, which is fantastic.
[00:27:52] So somebody’s out there listening. And of course we’re on apple podcast, Google podcast, you name it as well. So if you can find us on Spotify or apple, do leave. A rating out of five stars as well. If you could get, on app Amazon, sorry, not apple, or on Spotify and on apple, you can even leave a little written review.
[00:28:09] So if you can do that, we’d be very grateful in the meantime. Thank you so much for listening or watching wherever you may be in the world. And Jason, if you’re listening, in California. Good luck getting that internet sorted. Thanks very much folks.
[00:28:21] Kyle: That’s it. Bye guys.
[00:28:22]