The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Jason: If you’re not ready to implement, then it’s clearly a bad idea to, to join just for building relationships or for even learning the information that’s not sufficient.
[00:00:10] TEL Intro: We are Michael Veazey in London, England, and Jason Miles in Seattle, Washington. More importantly, you are the owner of a thriving online business, and you want to become the best e-commerce leader you can be. We’re here to get you there for show notes, with links and resources mentioned today. And for other GC resources like downloads, just visit our blog, the e-commerce leader.com.
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[00:01:14] Hey folks. Welcome back to the E-Commerce Leader. We are talking today about how to find your perfect community, a paid community, should you, in fact, be joining a high-priced mastermind for e-commerce sellers or business owners, and if so, how do you choose that? How do you. Get the right community.
[00:01:32] Surprisingly important question for a lot of eCommerce operators, for small business owners who operate often in isolation from each other, it can be a really powerful and surprisingly big problem for people to find a really great place to meet other like-minded entrepreneurs and really help you. Move your business forward.
[00:01:49] There’s lots of potential, but there are some frustrations which can come with finding the perfect group as well. So hopefully you can work those through with us and find yourself the perfect e-commerce community. I’ve just gotta mention the one that I’m because I mentioned it during the podcast, you.
[00:02:04] If you want to come and check out what I do at the 10 K Elective Mastermind in London, England, it’s for eCommerce operators who sell primarily and Amazon six to seven figures and live in UK or Europe. So it’s quite specific. If that happens to coincide with you, come check it [email protected].
[00:02:20] And of course, if you want to check out what Jason and Kyla doing, it’s at omni rocket.com and hope you enjoy the show.
[00:02:30] Jason: so would you say with, with regards to.
[00:02:33] Social side then. So feeling kind of anxious around your fellow members. Would you say that the, obviously Zoom doesn’t produce the bond that in person does. Would you say that it, it twice a year is typical for the masterminds that you’ve seen? And would you say that doesn’t feel like it, it’s enough or what’s, what’s going on there for
[00:02:47] you?
[00:02:48] Yeah, it’s hard. The groups I’ve been a part of it. Generally, it depends. Some are are totally virtual. Some have like a, you know, meet once a year type, you know, agreement. But it’s been sort of all over the board. I, that part’s never really worked to me. You know, the only, the only mastermind group I’d say I was a part of wasn’t a paid high ticket thing.
[00:03:06] It was actually meeting somebody at a, an event. It was Jeff Walker event, product launch Formula event. And I met a. Mike and we hit it off. Just we were in the same hotel and had breakfast together, and as it happens, he is digital marketer and we, we started doing just, you know, Zoom meetings. He’s from, Scotland and, we started doing Zoom meetings and we did that for like five years.
[00:03:33] It was amazing. It was great, but it was totally organic and it wasn’t a paid thing, you know, it was just because we really were interested in learning from each other. And, and, and then we, we met actually at several other events. We would go to Brendan and Brushard events together, that kind of thing.
[00:03:47] And so, you know, that’s the only time I would really say I met somebody in one of these that’s really turned into sort of a, a long term learning, relational kind of, connection. Yeah.
[00:03:59] Michael: That’s interesting. I’ve gotta say that I have seen things grow out outside the mastermind. I’m not sort of keep my trumpet, Maybe it’s the question of how narrow are your.
[00:04:08] Against the point of the people and how narrow the focus is of the type of people you got there that have seen people form various forms of partnerships. Sometimes they last longer than others and work better than others, don’t get me wrong. But there, there have been some, quite a lot of collaborations.
[00:04:21] That’s almost like a sign of health and a mastermind in a way. I would say. That’s, that’s interesting to hear. That’s only come up once. So, related to that, and I’ve got, you’ve got another question here. Gonna Nick your question, but it is yours. So what do you hope you are learning? Is that realistic is a question you’ve asked, which I think is very, very good.
[00:04:36] I’m gonna put that question to you because , it feels like you go in with a lot of hope multiple times. You definitely have a lot of optimism around masterminds and it feels like you are being disappointed quite often, so. So what’s the answer for you? What do you hope you’ll learn and how’s that been realistic so far?
[00:04:55] Well,
[00:04:55] Jason: the core sales job for marketing a mastermind goes something like this. The guru knows a bunch of techniques for. Generally marketing or digital marketing or whatever it is, e-commerce and the people in the room are only gonna be really successful. You know, students, proteges, you know, learners that have also scaled, and you two can be a part of this group.
[00:05:23] The implication there is that you’re gonna learn how the guru did what the guru did, and be able to replicate that, that that outcome. And learn what the mentor, you know, mentees, did, you know, the, the fellow learners, what they’ve done, and replicate the outcome, in your own business, in your own context.
[00:05:42] Maybe that’s just too big a stretch. Maybe it does happen. And, but I, I, you know, I, I don’t know. I don’t, in my case, it’s never, I’ve never felt like that promise was fulfilled, like the promised land that they said we would get to. I haven’t seen, that land promised land. I don’t see the land flowing with no , to use the biblical, narrative.
[00:06:04] The grapes, the size of watermelons or whatever. I’ve never seen the, the, the fruit of it quite materialized, like, that like, you know, I, it was sold. And that, that’s interesting to me to look back on. And so maybe it’s on me, you know, maybe it’s not realistic. Maybe I’m, hearing what I want to hear and believing what I wanna believe.
[00:06:21] As I go into such ventures, and I’m not down on these groups, I, you know, I’m continuing to sign up for them because I do have this underlying thesis, which is if you don’t learn, you don’t. And learning and growing in our business is vital. And the question is, how do you best do that? And I do think that there’s, opportunity to do that in, in these types of groups or else I wouldn’t keep signing up for them.
[00:06:47] And I’m not saying I’ve gotten zero value, that wouldn’t be fair at all. I have gotten value, I’ve gotten frameworks and clarity on ideas. And I would say that they’ve loosely translated into growth and success inside bi businesses. But it hasn’t been a cleanest process as I imagined, I guess is what I’m saying.
[00:07:08] Michael: Yeah. Interesting. And, and again, you are not alone in that. I guess a lot of people, as one of my guests put on recently, Ken Burke, who, who’s been through everything, he’s actually had a 10 figure exit with an eCommerce business in 2016. So he’s really being around the block and he, he had to go a capital fund and everything and he said, Yeah, you know, 10 out of 10 Marist, we’ll tell you their stuff works, but maybe two out of 10 does.
[00:07:29] So I guess, you know, it’s a question of you’ve got, it’s weird, isn’t it? You’ve gotta have that kind of belief that things are possible. Mm-hmm. , there’s no point. Becoming a cynic and yet filtering things for reality is difficult, isn’t it? I guess the only thing you can do is suck it and see, and you’re willing to keep trying it.
[00:07:43] And the other reflection I have on that is just this, that it feels like the programs that you’ve been going to offer and your hope has been a combination of both a peer group where you really feel you belong and connect and they’re your people, as the phrase you use, which is very much. You know, my feeling around masterminds and why I’d wanna be part of one and why I’d wanna run one.
[00:08:05] Mm-hmm. and, and also the combination of that and a sort of mentor, I mean,
[00:08:09] Jason: Yeah. And learning outcomes
[00:08:10] Michael: from the mentor and learning outcomes. So, so there’s a lot of things that, that are hoped for and I guess implied by the price tag. Right? I mean, it sounds like you’ve actually had very successful relationship with a mentor that you’ve described, which wasn’t even pave.
[00:08:24] Right. You’ve got a, a person, you have, you know, breakfast meetings with mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Is there perhaps a thesis for separating those out and having a peer group on the one hand and a mentor on the other that don’t happen to know each other?
[00:08:35] Jason: Yeah, I mean, it’s totally right as you’re describing it. I didn’t think about my, you know, relationship with my mentor Ron, but that was a totally unpaid thing, of course, except I buy breakfast every other Saturday when we met.
[00:08:47] But I met with him for probably eight or nine years every Saturday. We rarely missed, and he was in a completely different industry, but he was a small business operator. with a lot of experience on the finance and process and system side. Completely different business context than what, Cinnamon and I were in.
[00:09:05] But I learned a ton from that guy. And, he didn’t have a book or curriculum or anything that he wasn’t trying to be, you know, a mentor. It was just somebody who was a crusty old business operator that was willing to you know, go to lunch. Cuz I kept him entertained and I would talk about crypto and eCommerce, , stuff like that, that he would just laugh about and had no clue on.
[00:09:28] And, and then, you know, he’d learn a little bit about it and, but, but that was, that was an example of the completely unpaid, thing. I think that this question of what your goals are or your outcomes that you’re trying to get out of this is really vital because, for example, I’ll just use this as an example, and.
[00:09:48] So I’ll use Jeff Walker, his product launch Formula as an example. I have not been a part of his Mastermind, so nothing that I’ve said in this conversation is about his mastermind, to be clear. But what I have said to people repeatedly is, if you want the best product launch training, sign up for Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula, event.
[00:10:06] But then I’ve always said to people, but just read his book because why wait for the event? Well, you could read his book. I went through his, you know, high ticket training, $2,000 course. I’ve also gone to his live events and done all of the workbook training for three days. And also, have his book. And if you just buy his book, you’re, you know, that’s the learning outcome that you want.
[00:10:26] Just get this, you know, $7 version on Kindle or whatever it is. And so I think that is a, a core, you know, consideration is what is your outcome that you’re trying to achieve. Jeff has 10 years worth of YouTube videos. You could just watch those videos if your goal is just to learn the guy’s stuff.
[00:10:42] And that’s much, much, much cheaper than being a part of a small group or anything like that. So I think those are vital considerations. Really think about objectively, not in the moment of like the emotional, like, Hey, there’s an opportunity here. I wanna buy this type, you know, in a minute. So,
[00:11:01] Michael: so another reflection then is that you found somebody very, very helpful as a business mentor, perhaps, particularly in the early stages for you of, of, of small business, shall we say.
[00:11:09] Obviously, you knew a lot about business. You had an mba, you were working for a, you know, big charity. Yeah. But. So my question is, does the mentor have to be in the same industry if what you need is maybe the non-industry specific generic business skills? I mean, certainly, I would say a reason to take that thesis seriously is that most of what I see with a lot of my mastermind members is that where they’re really lacking skills isn’t the latest e-commerce marketing hack at all.
[00:11:34] Not to say you shouldn’t learn it mm-hmm. , but it’s actually because their finances are nonexistent or a mess, for example. What, what are your thoughts on that? That they have to be in the same industry? No,
[00:11:44] Jason: no, clearly not. I mean, I think there’s, you know, there’s, there’s, there’s not either or. This can all be both.
[00:11:52] And you can be as part of the groups for learning tactical strategy things in your niche or industry, but you also can be a part of groups that are much more foundational or fundamental. In nature, you know, where you talk about what does wisdom look like in general, you know, what does the wisdom look like in business?
[00:12:12] What does good solid, you know, business process look like for the boring, mundane things like legal, accounting, finance, operations, inventory control, you know, all that stuff is, niche or, you know, product agnostic. It’s more just the foundational stuff. And the better you get at that stuff, the better you’re gonna be at any niche.
[00:12:33] You, you are gonna bring those skill sets to any party and be like, Yeah, I know how to run a business. And so to me, I mean these are all learning objectives is I wanted all that stuff. I wanted to learn how to run a business. I had an MBA for that reason. But then I got practical wisdom and experience from that, that mentor and from just experimentation.
[00:12:53] But there’s still a place for these small group masterminds where it’s like, okay, we’re gonna nerd out over this specific angle or industry or niche or topic or, you know, marketing approach. So, so I think that’s, that’s a key consideration, you know, is I guess these things can’t solve all your problems or all your learning hopes and desires, that that’s just not realistic, you know, so Well,
[00:13:15] Michael: you, you are, and so you’ve been kind of the crush to Stu for quite a few of these things.
[00:13:19] So your, your experience might suggest that that’s, that’s a hard thing to achieve. Certainly. And maybe it’s possible out there somewhere. You’ve got a couple of other points that I ought give you a chance to, to say like, other things to think about if you’re considering, you know, is the master wine the right kind of thing for me, particularly high ticket one.
[00:13:32] Jason: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think another consideration is, are you ready to, I. And, you know, implement the approaches and strategies that the guru is leading into and that the group is focused on. If you’re not ready to implement, then it’s clearly a bad idea to, to join just for building relationships or for even learning the information that’s not sufficient.
[00:13:55] It’s like, where’s the rubber hit the road? Are you actually gonna do the stuff? And so, you know, I may have been a part of groups where it’s like, nice people, great information, but I’m not doing any of this. You know, cuz it’s just not the right, not, I’m not ready to implement right now. Maybe it’s too early, you know, I’m like, I’m a year away from this.
[00:14:13] Or, Whatever. And so I think that’s a key consideration is generally speaking, these courses don’t go away, or these groups don’t go away. And if the time is right, then you know, they’ll, it’ll be available to you to join again, despite what the gurus generally saying in their pitch or whatever. And so I think that’s a, that’s a key, part of it.
[00:14:33] So I, you know, I, I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m super down on groups or, or masterminds, because I just again, joined one and, and, and I, and I, I think they’re valuable. I think they have their place. And I, and I think it’s important for us to ask the heart question of how are we learning new things and how are we getting better skill sets?
[00:14:54] Because if we’re not learning, we’re, we’re shrinking back. We’re, we’re dying. Yeah. Our business will fail, if we sta you know, become static in what we know is. E-commerce operators or marketers, you know, if you, if you took what you knew in 2016 and said, that’s the only thing I’m gonna just implement over and over, you know, you wouldn’t be, as successful as Yeah.
[00:15:14] If you said, What’s the new thing? Who do I learn it from? How do I learn it well and really implement and learn from others around me. And I, so to me that’s the underlying desire is this, this, you know, kind of education in groups and it’s vital. It, it ha you have to have that in my view, as a small business operator or you’re not gonna be successful.
[00:15:38] I agree
[00:15:39] Michael: with that. There’s one little nuance perhaps I wanna pick up, which is you have to learn the new thing. Now I, I agree with that because e-commerce and digital marketing, digital environment generally is always changing. So new is really critical. But to the point about foundational things, those change less over time.
[00:15:56] They do change tax codes change. Mm-hmm. , but more slowly generally. And I think actually, perhaps that’s just a different place where you learn that perhaps you need a, a different type of group or a different mentor or a different thing. Maybe it just comes down to, as you say, the hard thing is to get it all in one place and maybe that mm-hmm.
[00:16:13] the pitch from the gurus is, is sufficiently enticing that you think you’re gonna get it in one place. And maybe that’s, as you said, it’s really kind of hard. I guess that’s one thing that’s coming out of today. Yeah. Which really brings us to our last question that you got. Isn’t it really? I think this is a good one that follows on.
[00:16:29] Jason: Yeah. And then a final thought was, are there be alternatives? And so this is a, you know, sort of an objective point of view on these things. But you know, you’ve, you’ve gotten in someone’s funnel. They’re, they’ve been is, I’m sorry I’m used
[00:16:47] Michael: to you complet you by . No, no, that’s fine.
[00:16:50] Jason: You got in. Someone’s fine.
[00:16:51] Yeah. Yeah, so the, you know, you’re in somebody’s funnel and you’ve, you, you’ve heard their marketing pitch. You know who they are. You’ve started to know, like, and trust them. And then they, they have a small group mastermind that you can be a part of. And the temptation is to say yes to that cuz you know, like, and trust the person and you’re liking the presentation of business success and you know all the skills that they have and they’re, they’re gonna teach you in the small group.
[00:17:18] The harder, more objective thing is to say, is this person really the actual best person in this industry for this thing? Or is there somebody who would approach this thing in a way that is more, appealing to me, and who I am and what I’m all about. And you know, somebody who I would align with their ethos and, you know, perspectives more.
[00:17:40] And I think that’s a key consideration that is more objective to think about. Because the problem is you don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t know the other people in the industry. You haven’t been a part of Nine People’s Funnel, and they all kind of do the same thing. And they all kind of have the same programs.
[00:17:54] And then you can, you know, objectively say, Well, this person is, you know, like this, they’re into this, this is their style, personality, cultural fit, societal point of view, whatever. And these other people have this other point of view. You know, and, and it can come down to just little things like, you know, they’re.
[00:18:10] Stylistic choices, Are they really like a, a harsh yeller of, you know, passionate pound the table, you know, cuss a lot at you and just be like, you know, get in your face? Or are they more like mothering and loving, you know, like, do they come off as like a real gentle soul that’s gonna, you know, gently nudge you towards truth?
[00:18:31] Those are very different stylistic, you know, options and alternatives. And so I think that’s a key consideration is, you know, it are you gonna learn from somebody who has the absolute best fit for who you are and what you need to, you need to learn and how you need to learn it. And I, I think that’s hard to figure out, but I think it’s worth, asking the question and and you know, some of us are trying to learn the same thing over and over, and.
[00:18:52] Year after year, it’s like, I’m still trying to learn this, I’m still trying to learn this, I’m still trying to learn this. And I think that’s where there’s an opportunity here for us, which is I guess to be, less, committed to one person and just say, Hey, you know, this year I’m gonna be a part of this person’s group.
[00:19:09] Next year I’m gonna be part of this other person’s group and I’m gonna strategically do that. So I learn and connect, you know, different ways, because of the two experiences.
[00:19:19] Michael: Yeah, I mean, I guess one option that I, I see and hear quite a lot from the mastermind mums is that quite a few people are member of more than one group, and some of them are quite expensive.
[00:19:27] And the 10 K collective is ridiculously affordable at the time of speaking. So I kind of put the price up because it, the value it produces. But to, to your point, yes. I, I think it feels a bit like sometimes funny reference point, but in my introducing you, , You know, I talk to people sometimes talking about their life partner slash significant as a wife, husband, whatever you call it in the 2022.
[00:19:50] And, I think a lot of the complaints come from the fact that you’re trying to get everything from one relationship that puts a heck of a burden on that one relationship. And I’m not saying that, you know, you shouldn’t get a lot out of your wife or husband as, as a relationship or, and give a lot. Of course, that’s the other side you gotta think about.
[00:20:04] And, and business partnership is, is, you know, intense as well. And there’s a lot there. But I think with a mastermind or a, a mentor, to your point, you’ve gotta commit or not commit. And I think that’s not a bad thing to therefore put high price on it, but you’re not gonna get everything for one place. And I think that’s one thing that’s really, I dunno what’s emerged for you and if it’s been helpful to you, Jason, and therefore to the listeners.
[00:20:24] But I, one thing that’s emerged from your. Relations of these things is that trying to get everything in one place sounds really difficult. It doesn’t sound like you personally ever experienced the mastermind that’s actually got the program and the mentor and the pay group to any high level of satisfaction.
[00:20:39] But what you have expressed is that you’ve had a mentor who you had a very strong and good relationship with and learn a, a ton from, but it wasn’t actually, you know, industry and that you have had connections with people kind of in your industry. So it feels like the elements, the pieces of the jigsaw are out there and maybe, I don’t know, maybe we all just need to put them together for ourselves.
[00:20:57] Jason: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting because you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta invest with something and you’ve got, and you have an expectation of something being returned. So it’s either time or money that you’re investing in, you know? So going to breakfast every Saturday for nine years with somebody who’s your mentor is a time.
[00:21:15] And, you know, kind of a long term time commitment more than it is a money commitment. And so that’s different calculus. You know, it’s a different, like what are my expectations in terms of return for me? But when it’s a, when it’s a high ticket mastermind, it becomes very money focused. Like, Okay, I’m gonna spend, pick the number 10,000, $20,000.
[00:21:35] I expect if this doesn’t help me by that amount, or two or three or 10 times more, in return that this is not successful. So it becomes very transactional in a way, in, in, in some ways. But that’s, I mean, fair enough. You have to evaluate these things on either, you know, is it improving the quality of your life and your business, in non-monetary ways, or is it, returning an.
[00:21:58] You can say, Yes, I, I spent this money and I know I learned these things and I got these relationships and now I’m doing X amount better. So anyway, so I think those are key considerations. So hopefully this hasn’t been an intense amount of naval gazing and the Pising Jason’s choices related to high ticket masterminds.
[00:22:17] But, hopefully it’s been helpful for people to listen to our thinking and thought process as we evaluate these important decisions.
[00:22:24] Michael: Well, absolutely, and I think the reason I sort of indulged in, in sort of putting that spin on it playfully is, is that actually a lot of people out there will have begun through the same thing.
[00:22:32] Cuz I speak to my mastermind members, some of whom have paid of mine, you know, $20,000 for, for a year long mastermind. They paid $10,000 for one weekend long event in Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. like, the fact that it’s a weekend long event in Las Vegas to me should give a little bit of a warning flag over it. I’m just saying, but you know what do I know
[00:22:49] I, I’ve not been to Las Vegas, but it that just, yeah, it says to me, That’s putting a heck of an expectation, you’re gonna get a value out of that. But it, yes, to your point about not being down on masterminds, I think it is a thing to wrestle with. I’ve been basically running on parts of Masterminds for about eight years now in the e-commerce space actually.
[00:23:08] And I started doing it for my own sake, and now I ran something for beginners. And now I’ve been running the 10 K collective for, for six to seven figure Amazon sellers for five years now. And, I keep wrestling with the best way to do it because I, to your point, I also have faith remove from the opposite side, not so much driven to join so many as to, or that I have done as to try and run one that that really sings and hums and, and gives that kind of connection that you, you clearly hunger for and that all of us hunger for.
[00:23:35] And so I think there is power in it, There’s immense power in it, but it, it is something you’ve got to seek out. And, and to your point, I guess, Quite, maybe critical’s not the right word, but, but really think about is it a match for you, rather than just going along with the marketing. I think is is why I’m Yeah,
[00:23:53] Jason: totally, totally agree.
[00:23:55] Well, thank you for a great conversation today on this topic. If you are listening to this, conversation on any podcast player, we’d love to have your highest and best review, The five Stars or the comments or whatever you can do to support the show. It’s really a huge blessing and help. Last month as we record this last month was our highest listenership month ever.
[00:24:17] Crazy. And it just keeps getting better and better. So we’re really, really grateful for the chance to serve e-commerce, leaders, and we hope to make content that continues to resonate with your guys’ heart from California and your mind from London. And, put the peanut butter in the chocolate together and, have a great time with it.
[00:24:39] So Michael, thank you as always for a great conversation.
[00:24:42] Michael: Thanks, Man. You too.
[00:24:43] TEL Outro: That was the E-Commerce Leader podcast with Michael Viy in London, England, and Jason Miles in Seattle, Washington. If you liked this content, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your podcast app for free resources, including PDFs and videos on topics like traffic products and sales channels. Just go to www dot the e-commerce leader.com.
[00:25:08] No hyphens, just as it sounded. Thanks so much for listening.