The E-commerce Leader

Michael Veazey 0:03

We are Michael Veazey in London, England.

Jason Miles 0:05

Jason miles in Seattle, Washington.

Michael Veazey 0:08

More importantly, you are the owner of a thriving online business. And you want to become the best ecommerce leader you can be. We’re here to get you there. Let’s jump in.

So Mr. Jason miles in Seattle, Washington. Yes, sir. Hello, sir. How are you doing?

Jason Miles 0:29

I’m well, how are you, man?

Michael Veazey 0:30

Yeah, amazingly surviving cobit 19. Just to keep it really topical and make sure that this isn’t evergreen down the line. I’m just getting over I still got a nasty cough. I was sort of slightly, you know, doing podcasts with a high fever on a lot of drugs for a week and only legal drugs I have to say. So. Yeah, back to the whole and really excited about our new podcast, man. Thank you for suggesting it. I’m really excited about this.

Jason Miles 0:55

Yeah, happy to do it. And just to be clear, you didn’t have Cova 19. Did you are you

Unknown Speaker 1:00

test you may have done but haven’t been tested. So like us the

Michael Veazey 1:03

UK has been really terrible at testing people. So you know, who knows, man, you know, cold as a cold. But you’re you’re alright. I’m okay man. Yeah. So let’s, let’s get into how this all came about. So yeah. Do you remember how we first met? I think it’s probably a couple of years we’ve known each other right?

Jason Miles 1:20

Yeah, I was just thinking about it. I was I had a book launch. And then I had pod, a podcast, you know, press team that was helping me get on podcast, and I think they reached out to you, and asked if I could be a guest on your podcast, and then we went from there those couple years ago. Yeah. Then we work together since in different ways. And so yeah, I think that was the initial concept. And then of course, in just the last few weeks, I’ve approached you and said, Man, I really want to get into podcasting. What can we

Michael Veazey 1:50

what can we do, man?

Jason Miles 1:52

Yeah, the thoughts emerged here. Absolutely.

Michael Veazey 1:54

Yeah, we’ve had a lot of fun. I mean, one of the reasons that I wanted to get you on amazing FBA my pockets originally, and which is, you know, still branded around me here is because I thought it was important for the Amazon seller community to hear more about alternatives. And in particularly Shopify as a famously, you know, a solid alternative business model. And when you approached me about doing an entire podcast, I thought, well, actually, there’s never been a more important time for people to start considering things in days when FBA Amazon is not allowing you to ship half the products, categories into their warehouses. And if they are, they’re not guaranteed to fulfill them in very any kind of timely manner right now. So March, April 2020. And I saw one, there’s never been a more important time to diversify, and you have just bags and bags of knowledge about that. So that’s why I was very excited to start something with you. Yeah.

Jason Miles 2:43

And you know, on my side, I really really admired your work with London ecommerce mastermind, you run and experts, you’ve gotten that community. And so my thinking was, you know, connect with you more, learn more from what you’re hearing from on the ground economy. sellers in, in London and beyond. And between you there and me in Seattle really start to, you know, dig into some of these key ideas related to growing and scaling your ecommerce business.

Michael Veazey 3:13

So, lady, well, that kind of brings us to who this is for. So I guess you’ve got some pretty clear ideas about this. And I said, Why don’t you just outline who you’re ideally wanted to reach with this?

Jason Miles 3:22

Yeah, you know, I think the the last few years, I launched a Udemy course it’s installed now sort of is Udemy is top e commerce course and then do coaching. And I’ve written some books. And I think what I’ve learned over the last three years of working one on one with people is really enjoy working with people who have a sales, velocity and success, momentum going and have the opportunity to speak into their businesses. I consider myself a ecommerce seller, and a small business owner first. Not a teacher, not a writer first Not an online, you know, seller of product or anything like that in terms of info stuff. As the first thing I think of myself as a small business owner that sells online, that’s what I’m passionate about. And we work with our coaching clients and have a blast doing it, helping them scale up their business. So I think in my mind, this is really who the podcast is for, is for people who have some traction have some direction and want to scale to the next level.

Michael Veazey 4:24

Yeah, and in my world, I guess, the 10 k collective mastermind and the million pound mastermind for the guys who are traditionally based in London, although we are going to be having zoom meetings for the next while for obvious reasons. But again, yeah, that like your guys are ambitious to grow. And to some extent, they’ve tasted success, and they want to solidify their games because there’s nothing worse than the idea and occasionally, the reality of Amazon shutting your business down entirely. In this case, you know, with the Cova 19 thing it may be that Amazon doesn’t want to shut anyone’s business down, but nevertheless is restricting logistics. So that’s going to be a very big topic. I think we’re going to need to address in multiple different ways. And And finally, I think like, you’ll I’m, I find that those who are hungry to learn are by far the most fun to work with because you chuck an idea at them, they go away, run with it, implement it come back, and you can learn masses from you know, the the implementation, right?

Jason Miles 5:11

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I and I think there are people who have found success on one platform and are trying to figure out how to cross over to a different platform, I think we’ll be able to speak into that a lot, you know, people who are going from Amazon to Shopify or from eBay to Amazon, or, you know, you could bounce around from one to the next that pivot to you know, from one thing to the next to scale your business, I think is a crucial conversation to have.

Michael Veazey 5:37

Absolutely. Like, if there’s one sort of overarching theme that I think right now, at least my perception of the Amazon sellers community, maybe more specifically than some of the guys you’ve got, I know we’re doing very well, but there are some people doing well and some people are doing you know, less well, a moment on Amazon, but I think everyone’s in massive danger if they’re just in one channel of marketing, sales and one channel fulfillment, and that’s always been the case. But I think he’s like absolutely real. And now it’s like a matter of weeks, not years before and people get fan out with that. So, yeah, that that’s one reason again, why it’s very excited to work with you. Because I think that your ability to speak to not just at different channels, but different forms of products, including things that aren’t just physical products, I think is really critical. So, yeah, excited about that stuff. I guess we should probably mention briefly who this isn’t for, and kind of how that.

Jason Miles 6:26

Yeah, I mean, I think the content we’re going to share are not entry level concepts for brand new people who are trying to start selling online. We won’t, I won’t imagine that we would be talking much about entry level tactics. We won’t talk about retail arbitrage very often, I don’t think unless it’s about the pivot. And I don’t think we’ll probably talk about just base level, you know, Product Strategy sourcing strategy, I think we’ll probably talk about it issues related to that as it includes scaling and ramping up. And so I you know, I think if somebody is just trying to understand how to start an e commerce, this might feel like it’s pretty far into the deep end at swimming pool for pretty fast. Now you know, I mean, anybody can listen to that would find value in it, but I’d like to talk about things that are going to be crucial for people who have a solid ecommerce operation going that they want to perfect and fine tune and scale to you know, higher level that’s the type of person we work with in our coaching business and that’s the you know, the type of work that I find most intriguing to be honest yeah

Michael Veazey 7:41

yeah I’m very similar thing my side I’m I guess to define new it’s not for ya. Retail arbitrage It ain’t although I try to do retail arbitrage right now in America, you kind of brave or you haven’t read the news, weeks, but yet don’t don’t don’t expect any help from us from our front. I agreed. I think The other thing is that people who aren’t willing to implement or taking a micro judged risks aren’t going to do very well. And if people are aspiring to have a little side business, but they’re not real business people, again, a lot of what we’re going to talk about isn’t going to be highly relevant. So yeah, it’s gonna be for people who are, as you say, ambitious to grow and also want to shore up the gains they’ve made, particularly in these times, right. It’s not just about gaining sometimes it’s about protecting right. So then we come on to the whole question of why should they listen to us? There’s a lot of podcasts about e commerce out there, I should not have been contributing to them for a number of years. So what are we going to be offering? That’s different? That’s a great question. Well, I think on my side, first and foremost, I consider myself an e commerce operator that has, I think, a fair degree of proven success.

Jason Miles 8:49

Our Shopify site is one of the top Shopify sites in the world. And and I can quantify that I can I can show people how to quantify that most people don’t know how, but you know, we’ll Do like last 12 to 18 months, we average 60 to 70,000 transactions a month, where every blog post we put on our site is ranked in the top 10% of all blog posts on Shopify. They tell us that we’ve been featured by Shopify as a case study. And we run and you can go check out our site, I know Pixie feiyr.com. And things that have flowed out of that and included our work on Pinterest and Instagram, and YouTube and email marketing and sort of the marketing conversations I’ve had in terms of the books I’ve written and the courses I’ve done. It really all flowed out of, you know, just me being a practitioner. I really like being a practitioner. And, you know, so I mean, that’s, I guess, if there’s a reason to listen, it’s because I think I can speak into that. I also work with coaching clients that are really successful, and I learn a ton from them. I mean, every week I’m learning from my coaching clients. And so they’re To share, you know from successful e commerce sellers and beyond that, you know, run a charity as well. So powerful is our thriving charity. And we started 10 years ago, my background originally was as a charity marketer, a charity fundraiser, and converted into e commerce in 2007 2008. So I suppose that’s a little bit of why I’m not getting resume shame because my resume or CV is nothing like his strongest. I mean, I guess I am more of the podcaster the guy in the middle who brings things together at the moment, rather than doing any particularly big numbers on Amazon. I’m like, I’m selling on Amazon very small amounts at the moment, as you can imagine, but I guess my sort of claim to fame is really as a convener of things. I’m sort of at the center of various sort of circles of people who know a lot of stuff, including 10 k collective mastermind, guys obviously, the podcast is connected me with, I think about 750 guests over four years and multiple conversations so well, the nice thing is that I can effectively pick up the phone or on the zoom these days to pretty much anyone and get the answer to question Within about 48 hours, which is pretty cool. So I guess that’s what I bring to bear. And also just, you know, asking the right questions, sometimes I think this is part of what we got to do here. And you know, so there’s going to be fun being a co host rather than interviewer. But I think, you know, to a degree, we’re going to interview each other. And I guess that’s kind of part of the flow. So that’s sort of important, I guess we should say, this is not going to be a straight interview Podcast, where we’re getting guests on all the time, this is going to be us talking about these topics, going deep into things together. And so it’ll be it’ll be more of a conversation style podcast. So to the extent you like those, you’ll, you’ll like it. If you like the interview based podcast, and this won’t be for you.

Michael Veazey 11:42

Yeah, because you’ll just find the same ol guy being interviewed every single week. You got it. Yeah, but I mean, exactly. Well, I think these things have their their different places. What’s nice about having one person week after week is that you can develop themes and you can develop bigger picture thinking over the course of have, you know, several months and we’ve already got a content plan that I think should span the next three to four months quite easily. So let’s talk a little bit about some of the overarching themes as teased a little bit of this. But I’m going to give you the whole sort of chapter in verse because it could take a long time. But one of the overarching themes that you’re bringing, I think, is something I’m getting a bit obsessed with a moment, which is the idea of pivoting Well, from one thing to another, right. And I do think particularly anyone who’s selling just on Amazon, and just via FBA, ie Amazon’s fulfilled by Amazon right now has a couple of pivots to make before their businesses appears. So tell me a little bit about that. What’s your real brief brief thoughts we’re going to talk about?

Jason Miles 12:37

Yeah, I mean, I love the topic. And obviously, as you as you start your e commerce journey, you you obviously do pivots, to find your way forward. And most of us, I mean, most of us fail our way forward, as we find success, and, and so we made pivots along the way. A lot of the coaching clients I work with are at a plateau or they’re at a point where they’ve reached Realize me they have a perceived risk in their mind that they’re trying to mitigate. And so to them, it’s about how do I pivot. And you know, the classic one that is a top of mine for a lot of people is have, you know, the six and seven and eight figure sellers on Amazon, who realized that there’s a risk there. And they want to also have a Shopify site, you know, so that’s sort of a classic pivot. But there are a lot of pivots. It could be product strategy, pivot, it could be business model itself, and in platform, you know, sales channel related topics. It could be you build a business using Facebook advertising, and it’s worked, you found success, but now you don’t know what to do beyond that. And you’ve got to pivot to an alternative form of of traffic strategy. So there are a lot of angles I think, as it relates to pivoting that I think we can really dig into and have a great time talking through.

Michael Veazey 13:52

Yeah, queries and I’m particularly conscious that in so far, I’ve got the sort of Amazon seller head on and and thinking of the audience of Amazon sellers out there that I’ve been trying to serve for the last five years really. And particularly, I always think of the 10 k collective mastermind members and make sure I serve their needs. First and foremost, if I need a customer avatar, I just picked somebody from that group, because they are literally my clients, my favorite people to hang with, and the most, you know, action oriented people I know. And right now, quite a few of them are doing fine. And quite a few of them are hurting. And I want to be able to reach out to them and say, right, here’s a podcast, we’ve just laid this one down, you should listen to this because I think you could directly implement this stuff and get an alternative or income stream going within, you know, six weeks, or whatever it is. So that’s going to be definitely one person I’ve got in the back of my mind. So let’s talk a little bit more about what what would you say is your pivoting something that’s obviously close to my heart? What what’s the sort of topic that you’re going to be excited to dig into?

Jason Miles 14:46

Yeah, this is fun. I mean, this our little list here has gotten me intrigued by some of these. I’m excited to jump into these what’s one of the ones that I’m, I’m personally passionate about I work a lot with people on is profitability and so The topic of not just making sales, but making net profit, putting money in your bank account, you know that to me, I’m passionate about that topic. You know, the truth is making sales online these days is frequently not hard to do. You know, you learn a few things and you can start selling at scale that but that’s completely different sometimes than actually having a good profitable, solid long term revenue, personal, you know, revenue that you put in your bank, bank account. And so I’m really passionate about that topic. There’s, you know, three, four or five angles on that, that are important that really can go wrong for people, or they can go right for people. And it really huge, huge personal outcomes hang in the balance. You know, if you’re, on the one hand, you can, you know, the classic example sell a million or more and have nothing to show for it. Or you have a small business where you sell a couple hundred thousand dollars, but you’ve got a huge margin. You’re taking money to the bank every you know, every day. And I love that topic. So to me that’s going to be one that I always see magically go back to is, is this a profitable venture? We’re in? Often, you know, yeah.

Michael Veazey 16:12

Sounds like a really obvious question, but a really, really is not. Because when you get into a bunch of Amazon sellers, and especially amongst Amazon sellers, I have to say, because as you say, getting the scale for the sales, nobody says it’s easy, easy, I guess. But this isn’t for newbies, right? This isn’t for that person just starting out. And it’s not all that hard, especially on Amazon to scale to a million dollars run rate, but to actually make sure you got some profit there. I’ve had some slightly embarrassing conversations before now in mastermind, so I’d said okay, so your profit and loss, very complex, very clever spreadsheet is showing me about 2% profit margin for your business. Please, could you go away and and engineer those figures? So that at least shows a 5%. I’m in total for the business and not talking including owner compensation, but I think you’re absolutely right. I think it’s particularly prevalent amongst amazon seller. Listen right now is one of those moments where as Warren Buffett says, you know, when the tide goes out, you see, he’s wearing shorts and he’s swimming naked. You know, some people have been swimming naked, and they need to do a pretty quick adjustment of their clothing, so to speak. I think again, that’s right on on topic. I think that there’s the topic. I mean, what’s really intrigued me about this is we’ve been thinking about, okay, evergreen topics versus quotes and quotes, things that are topical right now. And you know, everyone’s worried about the corona virus and only thinking about that and checking the statistics obsessively every day, not the usual statistics that we check like conversion rates and traffic, but how many people have been infected in my country, how many people are dying and so forth, all the jolly stuff. But the truth is, I think it’s just showing a very, very bright spotlight on those two topics we’re both passionate about, I think that was true before and it’s gonna be true afterwards, which is to say, if you’re not profitable, it’s always a bad idea. But if you’re not profitable, and you’re in a shrinking market, or in a more challenged market, it’s a Very, very bad idea. And equally the pivoting thing and if you’ve been selling on Amazon FBA and ignoring the fact that I was going to shut you down, that it’s one channel that, you know, there’s channel risk, as I say, one is the loneliest number is one of my guests said recently, then suddenly, again, you know, it’s just become blindingly obvious, but it was true all along, right. So I love to think that the topics that we’re being pushed towards by this Kevin 19 thing are going to be perennial topics anyway. So that’s my aim anyway. And I think the the list of topics, you guys is quite juicy. And the final thing I want to say, Jason, is that speaking to you about, you know, preparation for this podcast, about your clients and where you’re at and I’m feeling a real surge of optimism, not put on but actually pretty genuine, which is very heartening because I think you have such a flexible strategic grab bag of things that you can pull off from the last whatever it is 1012 years of work, that I do feel that there is a business model out there for everyone. If they’re prepared to do some hard work. Do you want to speak thought a little bit? Sure. Yeah,

Jason Miles 19:01

no. I mean, I think it’s interesting that you mentioned that I’m expressing optimism in the last month or so. And I guess as I reflect on it, it’s for a couple reasons. First of all, you know, we started our e commerce business in 2007 2008, during the Great Recession, because we needed money because we were really, you know, our finances are really under stress. We had don’t want to, you know, go into it. But we had basically bought a home moved to Northern California at the peak of the housing market used a newfangled product called the neg Amnon we had never heard of, and got skewered. And so we were desperate for money. And we started selling on eBay. And then we found our way from there. So we built our business during a recession. I I’ve always said to people, our business Pixi fair. It’s built for the frugally minded, it’s built for a session. I’m actually I’m not just being optimistic right now, because for no reason I’m being optimistic because my Businesses built for down markets. And I’ve been we’ve been fine for the last, you know, seven, eight years as it’s been an up market. But now I’m actually I have a business model that does well under financial stress. And so I guess I’ve just carried that optimism into this last few weeks. I also think just broadly, though, even if you’re listening to this, and you don’t have that luxury, times of tumult times of just extreme change, they are times when you are presented with great opportunities. And we are clearly I mean, we’ll see how this plays out. But I think we’re clearly moving from what has been a, you know, a boom market for seven, eight, whatever has been 10 years into what could be one of the biggest stretches we’ll see of depression recession that we’ve seen, I mean, they’re talking about since like the 1929 1930s era. Now, I don’t approach that necessarily as like the sky is falling. I approach it as the Something’s changing. And it could be a really, really opportunistic time to start a business many, many businesses were starting and down economies. Absolutely. And so I guess I just have that frame of mind. Yeah. And I kind of feel like I’ve been here I’ve done this I’ve been in the pressure cooker. And and I’m excited to talk to people and I I really do believe I can speak into people’s situation in their lives if they are in that stressful situation because I’ve been there

Michael Veazey 21:29

that makes sense it is it’s so interesting to hear that because I’d never really heard you articulate that about your business and when I knew that you started a business because you you know personally needed money you and your wife cinnamon, the lovely cinnamon who I’ve met, who also I know is involved in your charity, but I hadn’t really thought or heard that it started just before that classic recession By the way, that was when my made my first property investments. So that shows what a property investing genius I am November 2006. That’s a duct tape property investing advice from me. But yeah, I think the fact that it was built kind of in response to a recession and survived a recession, in its very sort of infancy is is a really reassuring start, which I’m really articulated. And I think the other thing that strikes me is this, that because of the nature of your business, and I know that digital products figure largely in this, and that’s one of the clues that I think we’re going to be pursuing very, very hard. But also, the variety of business models that you’ve seen in your work, I think is a very, very healthy counterbalance to the very narrow focus that I’ve seen with Amazon. And that’s been deliberate because that’s what I felt. I knew and I understood and I had experience, I can help guide other people and I could speak to with some authority, but I’m realizing that focus is a helpful quality for a startup. But once you got to certain points, probably earlier than most people want, you need to consider diversifying slash shoring up and protecting what you’ve got, and I think you’re beautifully placed To speak to that, which is what gives me that lovely feeling that I’m able to, you know, with conversations with you to offer a great deal of flexibility of adding on things of pivoting, of adjusting of expanding in a way that is recession proof or recession safe, which for me is a great service that so to bring your voice and your experience to Amazon sellers is a great service, I believe. It is one reason why I’m really excited about this. The other thing I just wanted to say about the recession thing is it’s not just about surviving recessions, but as you’ve already hinted, there’s some big changes in recessions. I do think there’s a great time to go shopping if you actually have positive cash flow, right?

Jason Miles 23:43

Yeah, it is a good time for and we’re doing that actually we’re negotiating even this morning and negotiating with somebody to buy their their business. It was their baby and they ran out of money and real fast and honestly, and they’re ready to sell it now. And you know, that opportunity Unity is going to be coming up more and more as the stress and strain of this financial situation plows forward through people’s, you know, individual situations. And so I do think it’s a good opportunity. I’ll just mention one other thing. Just to tease another topic out. I think one of the things we can talk about a lot is traffic strategies, and campaigning strategies for you know, a lot of Amazon sellers, if you will have ceded the marketing control by the nature of the platform to Amazon. Absolutely. And when Amazon sellers come off of Amazon, the first question they ask is, how do we get anybody to show up? And I love that topic. It’s a blast to talk about and I’ve written books, Instagram power, and YouTube marketing power and Pinterest power and other books on the topics of traffic related activities, and I think we’ll talk a lot about that. I hope we do anyway.

Michael Veazey 24:54

Yeah, definitely. And I know you’ve got the nine mountains of traffic which we’re gonna have to dig into which ones that But you’ve already hinted a bit at some of the books you’ve written. Many, many books you’ve written, you’re, you’re a huge producer of books and of informational products. And I think in and of itself, that’s a major hint, folks, if you’ve just been saying, I am a physical product seller, and that is all I am, and I’ve limited my definition of myself as a business person or as a business. Yeah, that’s a big hit. Because, you know, there’s everyone’s assuming, I think, in certain sectors that there is a recession full stop, but actually, it never works that way. Resume stock, for example, has shot through the roof, for obvious reasons, because everyone’s on zoom do video, but that is one digital product that is doing very, very well. And I think that there are multiple ways we can access that as well. So So listen, we got a lot of topics ahead of us, dude, we got a big old list. We really get going with this. So I’m any any final words, people who just come across this the first time I mean, you know, give give them a reason. Why should they tune in for the next episode?

Jason Miles 25:57

Yeah, I mean, I think we’re going to try to bring encouragement And insight into e commerce selling, and we’re going to try to elevate people’s game. And if this is a interest for you, I think we’re going to bring novelty. In terms of the content. I don’t think you’re going to hear the same old stuff you’ve heard a million times or read a million times. I think we’ll have angles, we’ll have stories to tell, will have insightful questions to ask. Not homework, but questions that people can take away and stew upon. And I hope that we do elevate the topic to more than just a tactical tip here, tip there type thing that we really bring some high level thinking some 30,000 foot view, you know, conversation to the topic of e commerce selling everyone, right now, under this stress, we’re in it stay at home orders for Cova 19 stuff is literally moving to online selling. I mean, if you’re an online seller right now, and you’ve got product, and you’ve got customers showing up, man, you’ve got an awesome opportunity. And I want to make sure that we really encourage People along those lines. So that’s kind of my hope for it. Beautifully said man I don’t think I’m going to add that much to that except to say that yeah you you are cometh the hour cometh The man is what they say and they say bad bad habits breeding good times. And I think that particularly Amazon sellers have allowed themselves a lot of bad habits because Amazon’s made it so seductive they call it a drug and what have you, but I mean, I think actually the fact that you know, suddenly that the alcoholic has woken up and the off license has barred the doors to some other means that they have to, you know, learn to go on their own two feet, and to mix metaphors are ugly. Okay, wait, wait, wait, please. I just have to say one thing. You have the funniest British phrases I’ve never heard before. So I’m gonna have to regularly pause the conversation and say what is that phrase and what does it mean? It’s so great. It’s so great.

Michael Veazey 27:49

What what I was just saying is not a common British phrases just me going off on ones that don’t learn that one. They weren’t understand that in London either. What I’m trying to say is, I am I think This is it. This is a conversation that was long overdue anyway, for my Amazon selling friends. And the fact that we now have to have it means we’re gonna have it, which is a great thing anyway, because bad habits breed and good times. We’ve had a lot of good times, and we’ve met a lot of bad habits. So now is the time to grow up as entrepreneurs. But let’s enjoy it because I just think there’s intellectually so much to chew on here. I’m really looking forward to it, man. I’m stoked, as they say in the West Bay

Jason Miles 28:26

to say that and I am stoked as well.

Michael Veazey 28:28

I didn’t say that in London.

Jason Miles 28:31

At all chap. I don’t even know any British phrases to use right now. But I’m excited about it, man. I’m really excited about it. So let’s see.

Michael Veazey 28:39

Well, let’s leave people hanging there. And I think we’ve given him enough teasers for what’s coming up. So guys, stay tuned, especially if you are feeling the pinch, but you’re still in business. Now is the time to get your thinking bigger and elevate your thinking to be a real ecommerce leader. That was the e commerce leader podcast with Michael Veazey In London, England,

Jason Miles 29:01

Jason miles in Seattle, Washington.

Michael Veazey 29:03

Jason’s latest ebook is Tiger proof how to move your business from personality driven to a system that works without you. If you’d like that ebook for free and to be kept up to date with our podcasts, just go to WWW dot ecommerce leader.com that’s ECOWM e RC e la de r.com

Transcribed by https://otter.ai