The E-commerce Leader

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[00:00:00] JM: I think that the strategy Bit there is to be clear about who your ideal customer is, and to be very a bit be wise about how you appeal or appeal or call to or call out your ideal customer and doing it in a way that is, not disenfranchising to other people, not exclusionary, I think is a is a wise thing to think through all of us is.
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[00:01:27] JM: All right. In this episode, we are going to break down the non obvious interesting points of Alex Hermosi’s most recent book launch, the 100 million Leads book. It is absolutely crushing it on Amazon. And the way he did the launch was really, really interesting. It has a lot of lessons for all of us as product marketers and as people who are interested in getting new customers.
[00:01:51] And so in this. podcast episode, we’re going to really dive into some, some interesting points about how he recently did this work. Michael, are you ready to talk about his, his recent book launch and how he did it?
[00:02:02] MV: Absolutely. I mean, I suppose I focus more on the content of the book. I mean, as, as a professional author and book launcher yourself, I guess you’re going to be more geared to the book launch. So up for, for either or both sets of wisdom.
[00:02:15] JM: All right. Well, let’s jump into it. I’ve made a few points about things that I thought were interesting and we can weave in the, the overview of the book, if that’s helpful as well for people who haven’t seen it. In fact, maybe we should start with that. Michael, you’ve got sort of the breakdown on the.
[00:02:29] Core concepts of the books. You want to just do a one or two minute overview, and then we can talk about how we marketed this and why it was interesting to watch him
[00:02:37] MV: it’s going to be an interesting exercise because I’m looking at a sort of Spotify thing. So I’ve been listening to the audio book, which is available on Spotify. Thanks to you, Jason. So we’ll share that link over at the e commerce leader. com as usual. But, really it’s. About the, by the way, I think the first thing to say is this, this sort of follows on from having a great offer and there’s a really good book called the a hundred million dollar offers.
[00:02:56] So I would definitely recommend pairing the two together if you’re reading them. And so it’s basically about the importance of getting leads, engaging your leads and, understanding, what is a lead. How to get them engaged as well. lead, magnets as well is covered in that. Then, warm outreach is one of the core for, as he calls it, reaching out to people who already know you.
[00:03:17] So if you’ve already got an audience, if you’ve got, anything from like in our case, for example, podcast subscribers, posting free content, or. YouTube, anything like that. Cold outreach, which is, particularly in the business to business space, I guess, important, but could work in, business and consumer.
[00:03:35] And then, the paid ads. Just kind of like, I always think it’s like the siren with the rocks waiting and the Greek myths, but they can work. and then the core four on steroids, which is more better or new. So he talks about how to improve on things. And it’s not always about just doing something different.
[00:03:53] Sometimes it’s about being better. So a lot of it’s very strategy level advice. I think there’s some very great tactical things as well. And then he talks about customer referrals, employee referrals, affiliates. And, advertising in real life, which I think is good because he admits that it’s tough and it will take you time before you make your money back.
[00:04:10] So very feet on the ground, very typical. Alex, I’m a big, big fan of his style. It’s very kind of humble. And at the same time, he’s not shy about admitting how much money he’s made. So he somehow wins the jackpot for not being a humble brag, which is very unusual. Most people kind of, frankly, are a little bit, look at me being rich.
[00:04:27] So I really like his style. That’s a personal thing as well. So that’s it. Brief summary of the book in my personal understanding of it.
[00:04:35] JM: interesting. The way you recapped it makes it sound like very basic information. Which it is, I guess, but it was written in such a way that it was very, I guess, engaging to me, and didn’t seem like a rehash, didn’t seem like here’s just the basics of lead getting it, it’s, it had elements of intrigue and surprise in it sufficient to keep me interested the whole way through.
[00:04:58] So, so that was, and I guess let’s just start off by saying it’s a good book. It’s a
[00:05:02] MV: definitely. And to your point, it’s a very good point. I think that his personal style on, I do think that’s linked with who he is and his business success as far as I can tell. I don’t know him personally, obviously, but the fact that he gets back to basics, but doesn’t really thoroughly is, I think that one of the cause of his success and he doesn’t overcomplicate things.
[00:05:23] And in a world where. It can feel very overwhelming. I think the fact that he makes it feel very doable, and keeps it very simple is actually a winning approach. and the way I’ve summarized it is probably my dull way of putting it. I mean, he’s got lots of personal stories and personal engagement in every single part, but he’s not rehashing.
[00:05:41] I think it does come across to me like he’s speaking from extreme amounts of personal experience in every single case, which is maybe one thing that differentiates him from other overview type books where it tends to be a bit dry and a bit abstract.
[00:05:52] JM: Okay. Well, let’s jump into some elements of the actual launch of this and how he used it to build his business that I think were very interesting and all of us can learn lessons from regardless of whether you, you get the book or not. The first thing I noticed that he did was, what Eben Pagan, I think it was referred to as lowering the free line.
[00:06:10] This is a idea that’s interesting, in, in internet marketing and that is that you want to find a way to offer more for free. Anytime you can in your business. And I was really interested in the way in which Hormozy did this with this book launch, which was surprised, I think everybody. and that is he put the entire audio book on his Spotify, podcast and.
[00:06:37] That I don’t think I’ve ever seen done before, Michael. Maybe you’ve seen it done before, but to me, it was like, okay, there’s a book coming out. It’s going to be his next big book. it was a follow on from the first one, which was a big smash hit. And then, I knew marketing was happening in support of it.
[00:06:53] And then boom, there it was. Here’s the entire book on Spotify. And I think that was sort of a shocking way to lower the free line. And then after, I, I was listening, but also observing that he did it. I was like, well, why doesn’t everybody do that? Like, well, that’s actually just a genius way to get it out there.
[00:07:12] Now, most people treat the book as like a, a loss leader. Maybe if you spend more than you make on it to find clients, or maybe they feel like it’s actually a, a money making device. But in his case, he used the book for promotional purposes and wanted to max distribution and lowing the free line by putting out on Spotify was a genius way to do it in my view.
[00:07:32] So I don’t know what that caught your attention or your thoughts on that were.
[00:07:35] MV: I mean, when you said, Oh, it’s available because we spoke about, discussing this book a couple of weeks ago and I said, well, I’ve heard all about it. Obviously I’ve, I’ve devoured and reread a hundred million dollar offers by him. So, I hadn’t read a hundred million dollars. And he said, Oh, here it is on Spotify.
[00:07:49] And you sent me a link. I thought, Oh, that’s weird. Huh? Free. So I was also taken aback, but when you think about it, the, the basic principle that he talks about with content creation is, is this, that you can think about expanding your audience. And in which case you want to give, give, give very generously, or you can think about monetizing your audience.
[00:08:05] In which case you put a bit of a restraint or a constriction on the wish to grow because you’re asking for a bit more. So people aren’t quite so full of goodwill, but they’re giving you money in a few cases. and I think that he’s very made a very, very clear decision here and is in a financial position to do it, to massively expand the audience.
[00:08:24] And to not worry about monetizing at this point in his sort of funnel. And he says very clearly, and I’m sure that’s true that he monetizes primarily by acquiring businesses, that are doing over, I think it’s what, 3 million a year in revenue. So, this is about. I guess exposure in the first instance and building massive goodwill in the second and building a sort of trust.
[00:08:45] So it’s no like trust exercise, really. that’s what strikes me. So I think he’s, taking his own medicine as he indeed seems to do.
[00:08:54] JM: So I, I totally agree. And it was, it did catch everybody, I think, in an interesting way. And it also to, to your point, it, it created a context in which people were going to listen to him to understand what, why he did that. Like, why was he putting it out on Spotify for [00:09:10] free? And it gets to my second point I jotted down in my notes, which is he clearly called out his ideal client.
[00:09:17] In the process of the book and he did it in such a way that didn’t alienate his non ideal clients and that was really interesting. He basically said in the book, that through acquisition dot com, he’s looking for businesses to invest into or purchase that have 1, 000, 000 a year in profit and more or more.
[00:09:36] And for everybody else, he’s happy to give his content away for free. So that they can get to that level, which is a very elegant way of saying that he’s not interested in working with anybody below that level, but he’s willing to help them. And this is the way in which you can do it. And I thought that was a very, very clever positioning of the book.
[00:09:57] It was, it was, both call to a siren song to his ideal client, but in a way that made everybody feel good and didn’t feel exclusionary, and many Internet marketers I see do this. Really badly where they’ll do a broad appeal do a challenge or a big event and then their basic device for Sorting and for working with hiring people would be like, okay My masterminds 50, 000 a year and everybody else is left thinking.
[00:10:28] Well, I guess all the good stuff that’s in the mastermind I can’t hear and I don’t qualify and it leaves sort of a
[00:10:39] shunning of, of the, of the little people, I guess you could say, which is, it’s just not cool in a way if you think about it. and the way he did it was just the opposite where he, I think, ingratiated himself to everybody on both sides of it. So what are your thoughts on
[00:10:53] MV: I think everything you say is true. And I think it’s true also for Alex Hormozy because of who he is. I mean, again, it’s how he comes across everyone has a sort of, it’s an American. I was going to say cliche, which is true, but also a meta narrative, if you like, a narrative behind all narratives, which is rags to riches, which is kind of the, the Americans, tell themselves this story.
[00:11:12] In some cases it’s true. Like,Alex Hormozi is a Iranian American, first generation immigrant, like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos was second generation immigrant and adopted. So there is much truth in it, but the rags to riches thing. Only works, I think, if you, have experienced enough of the rags to be able to write in such a way that people believe it.
[00:11:32] And, and I believe that Hormoz has experienced that, and I’m, I’m, that’s interesting, that’s great writing, well, that’s great empathy, because I’m English, and I’ve never really been particularly poor or particularly rich, so I think he’s. Hold it off because
[00:11:46] JM: particularly
[00:11:47] MV: I think, well not particularly.
[00:11:49] I think that Hormozi is that person. I think it can also work to embrace being, again, without naming particular names, because it will get everyone just thinking about the controversy that’s created by certain characters. But I can think of certain political characters who are extremely, kind of resentful and angry, but they somehow own it in a way, and that works for them.
[00:12:07] I would prefer to think that Hormoz is better for humanity and a better way of doing it. But what I think is really important is that he has built goodwill by positioning this helpfulness because of he is a helpful person. I think trying to emulate that if you’re not that kind of person might come across as somehow not, not ringing true.
[00:12:24] That’s all I would say.
[00:12:28] JM: So it was believable
[00:12:29] MV: I think more than that, I think it’s an outgrowth of who
[00:12:31] JM: it was authentic in your
[00:12:33] MV: exactly. And I think being authentic is really important in this case. It happens to be also, ethical and build fantastic world, goodwill and be elegant positioning and many great things, but I think. Some people do really, really well, and they completely turn me off, but other people love them.
[00:12:46] And because they’re also being authentic, there’s a power in that, I think, so. There you go. Can everyone else copy Hormozy? It’s a good question.
[00:12:56] JM: Well, I mean, I think that the strategy Bit there is to be clear about who your ideal customer is, and to be very a bit be wise about how you appeal or appeal or call to or call out your ideal customer and doing it in a way that is, not disenfranchising to other people, not exclusionary, I think is a is a wise thing to think through all of us is.
[00:13:20] business owners now, that’s more for information marketers, maybe, maybe more for people who are, courses and books type, focused if you’re, selling a plastic widget on Amazon, is that still a truth for you that you need to call a call out and find your ideal customer?
[00:13:36] Maybe it’s a bit different
[00:13:37] MV: I don’t know. I think that’s, it’s interesting point. It’s a very interesting point. I think if you’re selling a plastic widget, then no, but if you sell an aspirational product in a range of products, that is fantastically high value, not affordable for most. But you also have some kind of product that is also loved and looked after and cared for and done well, but is much more affordable than actually, I think that’s a very smart thing to do because some brands do that.
[00:14:01] I’m trying to think of a physical product brand. I mean, I guess that the, the classic brands that spring to mind for some reason would be things like, handbag makers, that can have a very, very, very high end offer. And then the 400 offer feels very affordable and also feels more gracious. And so some fashion brands do this quite well, I think.
[00:14:21] JM: I think one element to ask all, all of us ask ourself is do people articulate your ideal niche client back to you in a way that’s actually correct? Like if, if people say to you who you are, what you do, or like they tell their friends who you are, what you do, do you hear things that are completely wrong?
[00:14:40] completely off it. Is it, is it clear to everyone who you’re trying to work with? And if there’s ambiguity there, the question is why? Cause it’s yours to own. It’s yours to manage. It’s yours to put out into the universe, and this is, I think, a positioning thing that’s really vital for all of us at every level to your point, like for product differentiation, our recent jack trout classic book positioning speaks to this the most, in my mind, it’s just a fantastic book and in marketing warfare is there the book that’s really, really good about, identifying your ideal, position in the market and being laser being focused on
[00:15:14] MV: Interesting. Also, you and I, who obviously fans of Alex Hormozy came away, you were more accurate in who is target customer was somebody with at least a million dollars. I was thinking 3 million revenue for some reason. And so, I guess he’s not that obsessed with calling that out. I suppose that people who are really interested in working with him will, will find their way to him.
[00:15:33] but maybe he could do a better job to your point. The real test is what are other people say about your business when you’re not around, how clearly have you communicated your ideal customer,
[00:15:41] I guess, based on this little test remains, he has some work to do there, but we’ll give him a pass on that.
[00:15:45] He’s done well on everything else.
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[00:16:37] JM: Well, there you go. I guess I was particularly fixated on it. as I was listening to the book. the point number three on my list here was, we kind of touched on a little bit earlier already, which is make an incredibly good product and then give it away for free. he said he wrote.
[00:16:52] This book over like a two year time span and I would tend to believe that that was probably true. I’ve taken my best whack at many a book outline and and writing exercise and I have some that are half baked and not ever put out. I have some that are half baked and put out and I would just say that he wrote a really good book and then he gave it away for free, which is a fantastic.
[00:17:14] Market positioning exercise and, and that, and that I think is, is the trick for many, many e commerce operators who are trying to get scale is how do you attract a large audience? And is there an element of it? A component of it that could be done with a. and digital good sellers that we’ve, obviously played in that space for a long time.
[00:17:36] Now think that way. A lot of physical product sellers don’t think that way, but my advice to them is always that they should ask that question. is there a, is there something you could give away for free that would attract a large audience of customers or prospects? And he did that. I think brilliantly with, with this book.
[00:17:55] MV: Absolutely. I was just thinking, about this whole thing of, giving away food products, but also, how to integrate this into physical type product business. Cause the implications of a lot of. the whole Moses books and I guess this experience is, with. Service type products and all businesses, and it’s very easy to dismiss it.
[00:18:12] And I think that’s a huge mistake because I mean, in a sense, you should say, well, if I’m a physical product space and all these information and service [00:18:20] based people do these things and my competition doesn’t, that’s a great reason to consider how to adapt it to your industry. one thing that strikes me is this, that a lot of people who sell on Amazon and to some extent.
[00:18:30] A lot of people who sell on, their own DTC sites as well, may create a brand which is quite strong in its space. And that’s obviously really important. If you sell on Amazon, a lot of people don’t do even that. But, but if you don’t own it as the owner of it or have a face to the brand, you’re missing out on a potential area.
[00:18:48] And the reason I bring this up is because Hormozi himself mentions in his book on the content side, he didn’t want his face and Leila Hormozi’s wife. Plus still love the internet didn’t want to be creating content and kind of refused to do it until he came across several examples of content creators of various kinds, becoming billionaires quicker than he was, and then he finally relented and decided to embrace the personal branding, which isn’t the same as the corporate branding.
[00:19:13] And what I think is missing. As an element in many e commerce businesses is things like the founder story that it’s in the about page somewhere, but it’s not lent into. And when you think of the really famous business stories, like the body shop, I think of Anita Roddick, the entrepreneur, and I think of Virgin Airlines.
[00:19:29] I think of Richard Branson. And they’re still sellable businesses, but they have a kind of DNA of, or a marketing DNA around the founder and their story that I think everyone can embrace, which is not quite the same thing as the making a good product thing, but it is about how do we transfer these lessons from making a book, which is really full of personal stories in this case, and transferring that way of thinking into the physical product world.
[00:19:55] And I think the best physical brands do this look at the Kardashians and they’re creating ridiculously valuable brands.
[00:20:03] JM: I totally agree with that. Let’s add another item to our list here. What you can talk about, which is, create a brand as you go. His I was thinking the branding that he was creating was 100 million dot dot dot one or whatever it is, sales leads, whatever his, his construct of his book title is.
[00:20:20] To me, it was interesting that he followed on. He’s clearly made a path there with the 100 nomenclature in the top title of his book, that’s smart marketing. In my view, I try to do that to some degree with obviously my power phrasing and my Instagram power, Pinterest power, books and beyond.
[00:20:37] But he’s done it really, really, he’s just hit a grand slam home run, and now has created a very clear brand out of that phraseology, I guess you could say. But to your point, he’s also built a personal brand out of it. Where he went from basically not known at all to being an authority on, sales and conversion.
[00:20:58] and that’s the interesting part of this to me as well. he, he used the classic book launch to Enter the stratosphere of marketing leadership, and that, that is, everybody says, write a book for authority. And then, 9, 999 people do it in that they don’t have any authority after they did it. but, but on the occasion, when you do a book and you do it right, and you absolutely just crush it, you end up with a positioning that’s unmatchable,
[00:21:28] MV: Absolutely.
[00:21:29] JM: and he’s clearly demonstrated that, which is very interesting. The branding of it all,
[00:21:32] MV: I would also say what’s really important and it struck me very hard with this book, or series of books. So he said a hundred million dollar XXX in this case, offers leads, he’s probably going to do, I think it’s something about business structure and, and business models, which is obviously really, really.
[00:21:46] JM: sales
[00:21:47] MV: Sales is okay. Looking forward to those things, but that along with like the four ed work week sounds quite spammy. Cause I spoke to one of my, well, one of the mastermind members in a recent meeting mentioned the hundred million dollar office, and I said, it’s amazing. And somebody else said, Oh, I hadn’t bothered reading out because it sounded so clickbaity and which I think is true, I’m sure he’s tested it.
[00:22:03] And there’s a reason why I did it, but, without Alex for Moses personal brand behind it, just as without Tim Ferriss, his personal brand behind the four hour work week, it would just be another slightly dodgily named book. I think, I think the personal brand. is intrinsic to why that title, which is very kind of compelling, but also very kind of cliche, works.
[00:22:23] and I think so coming back to the idea of using, lessons from this as for physical product sellers, which is my main sort of people I try and serve, then, having a personal brand changes the meaning of everything else you put on top of it, the corporate brand, the naming of your products, Nike air wouldn’t mean anything without some person sports personalities that they’ve endorsed.
[00:22:44] which wouldn’t mean anything without the commitment to sort of sporting excellence that’s in the DNA of Nike as a brand, for example.
[00:22:53] JM: This is a very interesting point about branding. That’s sort of deep into the swimming pool in my view. And that’s this idea that I used to always say to people when. When people bond with each other at your event or around your product, they bond with you, your brand, so that they’re building relationships with each other and that accrues to value your brand.
[00:23:18] If you’re the one that’s been the convener. In this situation, it’s the same principle, I think. And that is when people bond with your product, they bond with you as the maker. And that’s why people have just such this affinity for like the Elon Musk’s or, the Steve jobs is like, they don’t know those people.
[00:23:38] They don’t know who they are or anything like that, but they bonded with them because they bonded with the product. And it’s such a clear example in this case that, People rallying around these books have created the context in which, Alex Ramos, he’s become their hero and, and, and that’s just a, it’s like a halo effect of a product.
[00:23:56] there’s, there’s additional bonding that occurs beyond with just the object of, the, the individual product that is purchased or consumed or liked. it’s really
[00:24:05] MV: you’re right. That’s a very, very subtle and yet very powerful effect. You’re completely right. Because I mean, somehow you and I sort of went when you said, have you read the whole magazine? But I’m like, no, but I love his stuff. That was another sort of part of our relationship and the bond between us.
[00:24:18] So you’re absolutely right. And that is kind of. Subtle because you can kind of set that up or try and engineer it, but you can’t control it directly. It’s happening out there with really strong brands and strong products. I mean, I guess that’s what we’d all pray for. I suppose the obvious question is, how do you engineer that?
[00:24:34] I suppose this is an example. Maybe we should get into the next thing about what he’s done with the book launch. Cause I guess that’s part of that.
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