The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Jason: market dynamics are always gonna be market dynamics regardless of whether there’s a new thing happening or, it’s never change in a million years
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[00:01:10] Michael: Trends influence, buyer behavior and smart e-commerce sellers identify them quickly, adapt and change in keeping with them and profit from them. So in this episode, we’re gonna be talking about trends of all kinds and how to profit from them or. Equally important, at least how to avoid being hurt by them.
[00:01:26] Jason, you ready to discuss this interesting topic? Yeah,
[00:01:30] Jason: I love this one, man. This is a great topic. So vital to all of our success is really understanding what the times are telling us, and what’s going on in terms of consumer sentiment and behavior. So much to talk about with this, podcast.
[00:01:43] So yeah, let’s jump into it.
[00:01:45] Michael: Yeah, it’s a big area. So let’s start with the very biggest one, which I think is, it can be so Vegas to be meaningless, and yet if you hand it the right way, I think also something to keep in the background of on the, this sort of big picture strategy.
[00:01:58] Before I plunge any further, I should acknowledge also one of the reasons I’m thinking about this is one of my recent guests called Ken Burke, who runs a company, education company for entrepreneurs called Entrepreneur. Now he created Market Live in the mid nineties and sold it for 10 figures in 2016.
[00:02:15] So a really serious player in the e-commerce space and, yeah, so he’s a very good person to reference. If you want to deep dive into other. To fix. First thing to talk about is mega trends, which I think is very interesting. It can be very general borrow conversation, or it can be a profound strategic insight depending on how you look at it.
[00:02:33] So obviously one of the trends in the big economy is inflation. And then the other big trend that strikes me is eCommerce adoption, which keeps going up year on year, generally speaking. . Those are the ones that strike me as the obvious ones. What do you think about, is it even worth looking at the mega trends?
[00:02:45] Do you think it’s just too general? What are your.
[00:02:47] Jason: No. I don’t think it’s too general at all. I think you have to do it or else you’re in big trouble. For example, when Covid hit, there were people and I put myself in this camp who immediately figured out a strategy or tactic to, in essence market to your audience in an appropriate way in light of Covid.
[00:03:07] And I wouldn’t say take advantage of Covid, but I would say present offers in light. Because when Covid hit, if you didn’t reference it as a, a touchstone, you seemed completely outta your mind. If you just did business as usual, it didn’t make any sense. So you had to weave in, covid.
[00:03:28] So for example, with our charity, we did something called the Isolation Challenge, which was I S E W. Challenge I, so for seamstresses, and it was a play on words for isolation, but it was also a relevant thing and it just allowed us to embrace a mega trend, and adapt it for our use. And I think every marketer is well served by doing this if people aren’t talking right now about how inflation is impacting their customers.
[00:03:57] They need to think through how to do that and on down the line. There are big megatrends that you have to weave in. Yeah, I think that’s a huge one to start with and super important, to understand. And, the, a few others that we could mention, the whole world going from retail to online buying had been a trend for 15, 20 years now.
[00:04:15] I think it’s a pendulum swing a little bit, where now there’s. Integration where people are trying to refigure out retail, physical retail and integrate it. And so I think that’s an emerging trend. I think using AI and bots is a massive emerging mega trend that’s impacting many things on online marketing.
[00:04:37] And there’s other big megatrends too, the whole push towards environmentalism as. Table stakes. You have to present yourself in such a way that you’re sustainable or, in the farming niche. Yeah. That I, I follow. They use a phrase, regenerative. They love that new phrase.
[00:04:54] That’s the new trendy phrase, regenerative farming. So these trends are massively important. All that to say. Yeah. I
[00:05:01] Michael: like that. And I like the word you use table stakes. In other words, this is not, a thing you’re gonna have necessarily to have an advantage over everyone else. It’s just like a basic that without that you are, putting yourself at a disadvantage.
[00:05:11] And I guess you’ve implied already some of the uses, in the practical way of spotting trends. What does that change about your behavior? Communication as well. And we’re gonna talk in a bit more detail about how we. Use the insights once we’ve had them. But you’re right. Table stakes, very well put.
[00:05:24] I’ve had so many clients who say I wanna do X, Y, Z as a sustainable or green, regenerative is a new word for me, but that sounds like old wine and new bottles to me, but and I always say, look, great. That’s not an advantage. That’s, as you say, table stakes. That’s paid to play. That’s a really good insight that sometimes we feel clever cuz we spotted a trend and actually it’s just gotta be basic before you get in, move on.
[00:05:46] . So another thing I think’s really important, particularly in the, cuz I naturally we come at things from the Amazon seller perspective, in my case and the direct to consumer site owner, aka Shopify. In your case of course, I’ve seen quite a few things that people think of as trends that I think of as nasty fads,
[00:06:00] Fidget spins are the most famous example of that. So what would you say is the way to tell the difference? Cause I think that’s really critical cuz getting on the back of a fad that, that disappears can be really nasty for your business. Can it? So how do you deal with that differentiation?
[00:06:14] Jason: Yeah, I think it’s really important to think through.
[00:06:17] It can be difficult at first to understand what is. Popular that’s gonna be a fad versus popular. That’s a new trend. Clearly they both start with the same social energy and enthusiasm and people talking it up, whatever it is, fidgets bins or whatever. And then the, but the question is like, for the long term, is there sustainable ability in that message, to use the cliche phrase, is it a regenerative idea?
[00:06:43] So and how do you determine that? I think part. Thinking through this is just to, for tell or think through what are the implications of everyone being on the bandwagon? Is there one thing which would be positive, which would be network effects? When the Alexander Graham Bell introduced the telephone, was that a trend, mega trend, or was it a fad?
[00:07:10] Resultant effect of more people adopting was a po. A social positive versus the resultant effect of everyone producing and selling fidget spinners was, a devaluation of, it was basically a, oversaturation of a market idea. So I think you want, the first thing to ask is what was the implication of, if my neighbor had this, would it be good or bad for me?
[00:07:33] If everyone had this, if everyone did it, common adoption. And, and if the answer is, yeah, it’s helpful, that’s great. It’s terrific. Then I think you, you probably spotted something that’s gonna be a, an ongoing trend and not a fad. And so that’s how I look at it. I don’t know if that helped at all or not.
[00:07:51] What your point of
[00:07:51] Michael: view on it. Yeah, I think that sounds very sensible. Like that the positive and negative implications are very interesting insight. I hadn’t thought of that. And of course, things can go in more than one direction so that the, we tend to think, especially America, because America’s had such a sunny kind of economic history every single decade that America’s entered, it’s exited with a bigger economy that is not normal for the rest of the planet.
[00:08:14] And so I think, that can give an overly optimistic view of life. Of course, fax machines will be the classic example where the. Work effect kicked in and it’s now gone in reverse, I believe. I can’t remember if it’s in the UK or us. There’s some obligation upon the, I think it’s in the uk, there’s an obligation on the phone network to fund and keep fax machines going.
[00:08:33] And they’re about to get rid of that because it’s become absurd cuz nobody, but nobody uses facts and , you could be on the downside of a trend as well. And I suppose that’s, even with a network effect,
[00:08:41] Jason: I would differentiate that example to say that, Digital communications was the mega trend.
[00:08:48] The carrier was the fax machine. But that’s like saying, communication was a fad and pigeons were, when pigeons went out of vogue, that was, it was over, but the pigeons weren’t the megatrend, the pigeons were the carrier. and same thing for fax machine and but that was a real slow death.
[00:09:07] You gotta be honest. We’ve been in internet age with PDF documents sending for literally 25 years and those fax machines are still sticking around somehow. It’s like, how in the world are those things still live? So anyway, the mega trend, the mega trend is digital documents, digital, signings.
[00:09:26] And really, I would say it was covid that pushed everybody over the edge. We bought a house and sold a house during the time of Covid, in essence. And, it was ridiculous before that to have to go to a title company and sign a stack of you. 300 pieces of paper when we could have done it digitally.
[00:09:43] No one would let you until Covid hit and then we’re like, oh, I guess we could do this all digitally. So it’s interesting to me. I
[00:09:48] Michael: hear things like that from Americans quite often. I feel like the weird thing is America’s so innovative and created the internet pretty much single handed as a country on the back of Appnet.
[00:09:56] And most the big companies are American, and yet the infrastructure of American civil life seems to be very. So 10 20 behind Europe. I’m like, when my American friends come to London, they use touch card, what do you call it? You just beep into this, the tube with your card.
[00:10:10] They were wow, what is this? And I’m like, yeah, this has be normal here. So it’s interesting as you say that there’s pushes towards digitization. But yeah. But nevermind trends like that. The most important thing, as you say, is the mega trend is digital communications.
[00:10:23] And the pigeon was just to carry it. And so as a fax machine, that’s a really brilliant differentiation. I like that a lot. And I think, another way to look at a trend for me, related to what you’re saying there, is the idea of mega trends. Underlying trends are very powerful and very long term is to think about Two things for me to see if they’re real.
[00:10:40] One is, To look at some numbers, as you said, there’s an energy around conversation, which I think can be very fluffy If there’s numbers behind it that show like some industry numbers or growth you on year, compounded annual growth rates that kegar or whatever you call it, can be really good, a little bit more solid.
[00:10:55] And then the other thing is to think in terms of the sort of fundamentals, not so much to be chartist as a fundamentalist, if you like, in terms of stock market investing. So in other words, yeah, there’s a trend, but what’s behind it? Okay. Digital communication is more convenient. . It is simply harder to persuade people now to turn up in an in-person meeting than on Zoom, cuz zoom’s so flipping convenient and it doesn’t involve any travel.
[00:11:14] And so there’s a very powerful dynamic that’s understandable and clear and there’s a logic as well. So I think if you can see those things, for me it starts to feel more like A solid trend. Yeah.
[00:11:24] Jason: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that’s the right way to look at it. And CAGR for those who aren’t, don’t know or compound annual growth rate, right?
[00:11:30] So you do wanna look at the data and ask the question, is this just something I’m sucked into Some rabbit hole of internet marketing that I’m thinking is a big deal, but it’s really just some little corner of the internet. But it’s, they have their hooks into me. But now I’m getting, in the slip stream.
[00:11:47] Whatever fad people are pushing, or is this a mega trend? And you kinda have to look at it, especially if you’re using it for business and sales and marketing purposes. Yeah. Okay. So those are mega trends. All right, so let’s keep going. And then there’s fads versus trends. We’ve talked a little bit.
[00:12:00] Yeah, we’ve dealt with that. I
[00:12:01] Michael: think another thing you just implied, which I could jump on the back of that, which is the next topic really for me is com. Competitive trends, so that’s very, okay. Yeah, it’s very, what’s the word, daily experience for e-commerce sellers. Again, particularly in the Amazon space, I think it’s just intensified, but it’s the same for everyone, which is that if you see the competition changing, suddenly when you’ve spotted a trend, you’re not the only person.
[00:12:23] And as you say, in many cases there is a feeling of devaluation. Of individual product lines, so the price point tends to go down. On the other hand though, and this, I’ll be interested to get your thoughts on this, I think sometimes people are a bit too scared of competition because that does imply a couple of things.
[00:12:37] First of all, people know what a fidget spin. I’m not suggesting anyone buys them, by the way, but they know what a fidget spinner is so you don’t have to explain it and what the virtues of it are, how it works, so at least people come along knowing that it tends to create quite a strong demand because people have heard about it.
[00:12:53] There’s a sort of network effect amongst consumers. And then of course it validates the fact that there is a market there. . So I, competition is not always just bad, but nevertheless it’s always, thought provoking. So what’s your thought about dealing with when you see a trend of competition coming up?
[00:13:07] Jason: I think the question, the bigger question or the question around this is how does trends. Merge into markets and the market dynamics are always gonna be market dynamics regardless of whether there’s a new thing happening or, it’s never change in a million years or, whatever.
[00:13:24] Or it’s a brand new market. Dynamics are still gonna be there. And by market dynamics, what I mean is some markets are winner take all markets. Some markets are built to be monopolies and it’s a first move advantage. Some markets are duopolies by nature, where there’s two big. Competitors that end up, dominating, other markets are fractured and will always be fractured, where it’s a million little providers and no one really can roll it all up and be the dominant player for structural reasons.
[00:13:58] So you have to understand the market you’re operating and obviously to understand how the mega trend would impact it. So let’s assume that you’re a veteran. In your market and the lay of the land. Then the question is, how do you look at mega trends? And then also how do you look at trends in your market itself?
[00:14:17] Because to your point, there are a lot of niche level trends or market level trends that I think are very interesting. You mentioned more competitors joining the market. I would turn the other side of the coin over and say, what. Competitors, for example, who were in their late sixties or seventies who have built good businesses, maybe, multimillion dollar businesses, and they’re leaving, they’re retiring, they’re turning over the keys to people who are less qualified.
[00:14:45] Maybe they’re gonna sell the, their business that you see as a competitor to people who have no clue what they’re gonna be doing. I don’t look at it as necessarily negative. I think in the, at the trend, There are ways to win and understanding the lay and how megatrends impact it is really important.
[00:15:03] There is a massive baby boomer age out event happening in the US right now. That’s a mega trend. And so for business owners it’s really important to understand who your competitors are. I know one of our clients is acquiring multimillion dollar businesses from his direct competitors cuz they’re all.
[00:15:21] And he’s just friend friending him and playing his part, which is the younger upstart who’s just trying to learn the business. And how are you and could I come visit your office and learn from you And Yes, sure. And these guys are looking for exits and here comes this super smart young marketer who knows how to do online marketer marketing.
[00:15:41] And he is nice and he’s in their in. And they’re starting to think to themselves, I’m gonna sell my business to this guy. This guy’s my parachute. So anyway, I think there’s opportunities like that in the, at the niche level. That’s very fascinating. .
[00:15:54] Michael: Yeah, I like that a lot. As you say these things, we’ve seen a long period where trends tend to go in one direction.
[00:16:00] , sometimes positively, sometimes negatively. And the competition has been increasingly so much since I’ve been working the amateur world in 2014. And yeah, as you say, that’s not always the direction and, as we’ve discussed before and important to say, That I think there will be another big market share opportunity, from the trend of recessions, which tends to clear out those who don’t have enough cash reserves or don’t have a strong enough business or unlucky, whatever the issue is, who may not be choosing to exit.
[00:16:26] Some of those of course may also be baby boomers who just designed to exit cuz they’ve had enough of the fight. Others will just not be able to keep going. And so you are right that the trend of competition may not be a one way at all. I’ve certainly seen that within the mastermind that, that somebody recently got, they literally got phoned by an old competitor who said, we’re closing up shop.
[00:16:43] Do you want to buy some of the business? And that, that will be continuing. I think over the next while, that will accelerate if anything, I suspect. It’s, quite totally agree. Quite, was quite striking to me that it came so early in the game. So then the other thing, of course is the actual marketplace themselves.
[00:17:00] I’ve mentioned Amazon, you mentioned Shopify. Obviously the dynamic between those, particularly in the pandemic, I think shifted quite a lot. Certainly Shopify’s. Stock price, if I remember, and correct me if I’m wrong, sort of 10 x during about a year. So that implied that certainly the financial markets thought that Shopify was suddenly arrived and that can change a lot of things, can’t it?
[00:17:21] So what’s your experience of that as a guy who sort of sits on both sides of that?
[00:17:24] Jason: For a long time I was a stock investor in Shopify and I prided myself in being an early investor in Shopify, from like 2014 or 13 until a year and a half ago, two years ago. And when it hit, it Zenith, I thought to myself, this is just, I had watched it for so long, I thought to.
[00:17:44] There’s a top here that has to come off. And sure enough, I think its valuation is down by when it’s astronomically down compared to where it was. Because everybody thought so late in the process that Shopify was an answer to the migration, to online selling. People were so late to that party. It was like, there was just, it was the greater fool theory at the end.
[00:18:06] But I had been an investor for so long in shop. because we’ve used it for so long that I could just see it, it was so weird. So anyway, as it relates to their stock price, that’s one commentary. I don’t own any of it now, but I might be interested in buying back in now that it’s really fallen apart.
[00:18:22] But, yeah. But as it relates, by the way,
[00:18:24] Michael: neither of us has qualified stock market advisors, so don’t go best. No, not at all. Not at all. No, but it’s an interesting point. I, so the wider sort of trend idea, I guess that just to on the back of that actually just. The whole valuation of e-commerce companies based on a very short timeframe, ie.
[00:18:43] Trading 12 months at the end of the pandemic, big 12 months struck me as, what you’ve just said is a subset of that and what I saw with the aggregators, buying Amazon based businesses was also an example of that. I thought it was not quite great, a full theory, but it was obvious. It was an exceptional period in eCommerce that was unlikely unless we have another very similar set of circumstances to ever be repeated.
[00:19:05] And so I saw suddenly a bunch of aggregators coming on the podcast and my, my, friends started selling businesses at kind of crazy multiples, considering it was only based on Amazon. And that’s this big concentration risk in my mind. And, and their client sold for five times EBITDA and.
[00:19:22] Suddenly nothing. So again, I think, sometimes having a short term view of a trend can give you a distort perspective, can’t it?
[00:19:28] Jason: Let’s unpack that comment. For those who aren’t familiar with Amazon, private label and third party seller marketplace. So basically in the last couple years people realized you could.
[00:19:38] Aggregate or roll up smaller e-commerce, sellers and really build a portfolio with venture backed money or whatever, investor money, and stack the revenue. So you end up having a hundred million dollars of revenue or whatever because you bought 10, $10 million e-commerce sellers. The.
[00:19:59] Bloom came off the rose on that deal. Real quick as I understand it, which is the aggregators, and maybe I’m wrong, maybe you know better than I do, but what I’ve heard is many businesses were purchased from kitchen table entrepreneurs that had scaled up, the million dollar to $10 million valuation businesses or whatever, maybe they made a, a a million dollars in revenue and they sold their business for one or 2 million or whatever.
[00:20:22] And those people knew the blood, sweat, and tears that went into making that business a reality. They knew how to operate. They were operators and then they sold to aggregators. And what I’ve heard is the aggregators were not operators. The aggregators were financial engineers who thought they could roll these things up, just roll up laundry mats or whatever.
[00:20:42] And, as it happens, it’s hard to run e-commerce businesses, , and it takes a lot of work. And, so the aggregators have, duly gone bust or imploded or whatever, . All I can tell you is if I could buy their businesses from them, for pennies on the dollar, and maybe, these people, Michael, you could revisit those aggregators who have come on your podcast.
[00:21:05] It’s true. Yeah. I know a lot of them still work at. Still work at the company that they’re a part of and say, Hey, if you have some amazing e-commerce businesses that you’ve run into the ground without saying it that way, and you are looking for buyers. Let’s talk. just an interesting trend that happens.
[00:21:23] That’s very
[00:21:24] Michael: interesting thought. Actually, weirdly enough, I’m quite well placed for that. I’m not, I need to go and get some cash together from other people. I dunno if I could afford to pay million dollars right now for business, but or even hundred thousand, you might
[00:21:32] Jason: be paying hundreds of dollars.
[00:21:33] Not millions, hundreds would be
[00:21:35] Michael: affordable. Yes. Upy, I. I think another thing, to that point, yes, you’re right. That’s what I’ve strongly got the impression of, having, spoken privately and off air and on air with the aggregators and quite a few friends of mine who’ve sold, aggregating the conversations they’ve had as business owners.
[00:21:52] Reading between the lines. I think not only are you absolutely right that they didn’t know how to. Amazon businesses and they completely underestimate the challenge. But I think there’s the third one, which I spoke to an aggregator. He was the sort of head of the European operation for the aggregator, I won’t name cuz I’m about to say, he said to me privately, it’s not just acquiring and it’s not just running, it’s integrating them into a bigger system.
[00:22:15] And of course, if you earn a hundred brands to integrate them into your backend systems of people who can write Amazon listings, who can do keyword research, who can deal with Amazon’s massively for variable customer service. Yeah, that’s an even bigger problem was a fad. It wasn’t, was a fad.
[00:22:29] It was a fad. And it was actually the business model idea was flawed. And that’s a slightly different thing from a trend, which I guess we’re talking about, but it, but there was a trend where, , how can I put this? The business model was flawed from the beginning, but people overlooked that because they saw other people raising a large amount of money.
[00:22:44] From people even as prestigious and seemingly responsible as Goldman Sachs in one case. And then they felt they were missing out and then of course they stopped thinking so clearly about, this is like the dark side of a trend, right? And when people stop thinking clearly about the logical process.
[00:23:00] Jason: .
[00:23:00] Yeah. I was just gonna state the difference between that being a fad because aggregators were doing it and the client I was speaking about earlier, who’s rolling? E-commerce operations in his specific niche. It’s funny because both activities are very similar. In the one hand, they’re just rolling up e-commerce operations cuz they’re like, Hey, this is all e-commerce.
[00:23:22] In his case, he’s Hey, I’m in this specific niche. I know all of the manufacturers. I’m one of the top sellers for them. I know exactly who my competitors are and how their businesses make. And I’m going to roll them into my operation. That to me, is a roll up with extraordinary, incredible opportunity for success.
[00:23:44] And yes, there’s still integration issues and operation issues, but the chances of survival and success in that regard, are. Infinitely different than, buying, a bolt manufacturer in one eCommerce operation and a chainsaw in another, and a sporting apparel company in another, and a, all these random, industries and niches and trying to figure out how to integrate them.
[00:24:06] Yeah, I think it’s very interesting and timely. Conversation. But let’s keep going on our list here. We’ve got a few other trends to talk about, and then we wanna talk
[00:24:12] Michael: about the parts of this. Yeah. But that’s very interesting that in a way, what you’re saying, just to differentiate again between a, you were talking earlier about the mega trend of digital communication and differentiating between the pigeon and the fax machine and the, the carrier.
[00:24:24] And in this case, it sounds like the business concept is not necessarily over as a mega trend. In fact, you may accelerate it from what you’ve been saying, which makes sense to me. But the implementation. Is perhaps the difference. That’s what you’re thinking. This is very interesting. Yeah.
[00:24:41] WRAPUP: Hey folks. I thank you for listening to another episode of the E-Commerce Leader. I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s show. It’s not a fun to think about trends. It’s less of a. Nitty gritty subject, and it might seem, therefore it’s harder to justify, but I can promise you, as Jason said, really ignoring trends can be not only a missed opportunity, but can really hurt your business.
[00:25:01] Particularly of course, if your competition is observing the trend and you are not, or if the consumer behavior is changing great greatly as we’re seeing in late 2022, early 2023, and you’re not responding to that. This is really important. First of all, make a trend. We talked about a great deal today.
[00:25:16] That’s actually really important. The longer term trends that if you’re taking advantage of could be over a five, 10, even 20 year arc. That can really be the wind at the back of your business for a long time. Differentiating between fads and trends really super important and spotting sometimes the megatrends behind a fad that can be really helpful to differentiate.
[00:25:36] That’s one thing. Really dug into today that I think is absolutely critical, particularly in e-commerce seems to be prone to both mega trends and like e-commerce adoption itself versus fads. And there’s a lot of those as well. Try and avoid those on my own podcast over at the 10 K Collective, but we get those sometimes.
[00:25:53] And then the competitive trends within your market as well are, is the competition increasing or are in fact some of the people either retiring from business and sending those businesses on the baby boomers, retiring great numbers in the UK and USA and many other places in the world? Or are the competitors simply starting to go out of business as we’re already seeing in the 10 K Collective Mastermind here in.
[00:26:14] And then finally the online selling locations, which marketplaces you’re selling in as well. And, trying to differentiate between the short term fads and excessive valuation of Shopify, for example, or the current obsession with TikTok versus, what is actually a longer term trend there.
[00:26:29] So hope that was helpful to you. Obviously, as ever, don’t forget to subscribe to the show. I’ve got a particular thing that I’d like to call your attention to today, though, that one of the reasons I’ve been thinking about this, I’ve been following. Of course by a recent guest of mine on the 10 K Collect podcast for Amazon Sellers, a guy called Ken Burke, who runs a thing called Entrepreneur.
[00:26:50] Now, Ken was a. A business software, I should say, a software company owner in the e-commerce space who founded it in the early mid nineties, sold in 2016 for 10 figures. So a really serious entrepreneur, really nice guy, and very good at incorporating things like market trends into your overall business planning.
[00:27:09] His main focus is launching a new business, which I know for some listeners will be relevant, but also. It’s just as relevant, I think, for existing business owners to take a refreshed, proper look at business planning. The bigger the business owners are more successful in the Mastermind that I’ve seen, the more they intend to have a coach who will guide them through this kind of more strategic business planning process as well.
[00:27:32] So if you want to check that out, the best way to get to know Ken is through a free webinar, the 10 Secrets to Starting and Growing a Successful Business. And you can get to that. The eCommerce leader.com/ten Secrets. That’s one zero Secrets. The eCommerce leader.com/ten Secrets it’s free, gives you a chance to get to know Ken, and I think he’s the best person I’ve ever come across for incorporating trends into proper business planning.
[00:27:59] So that’s why I’m recommending Ken. And of course, don’t forget to subscribe to the show as well. If you want to hear more guidance like this. Hopefully more strategic level. Getting caught in the weeds of the latest fads. We hopefully can give you the bigger picture trends that will give you the wind at your back as Jason put it, and help you to grow a fantastic and sustainable robust business.
[00:28:21] Thanks so much for listening. Look forward to speaking to you in the next show.
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