The E-commerce Leader

Michael Veazey

Mr. Jason miles in Seattle, Washington. How are you, sir?

Jason Miles

Good, man. How you doing?

Michael Veazey

Yeah, I’m feeling very well, actually having got over Cova 19 it’s amazing how not having a temperature and taking lots of drugs. Legal ones I have to say. Makes you feel a lot better. So yeah, that the moment I mean London is busy, you know, growing its own virus very vigorously. Looks like Seattle’s having a slightly gentler path. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, at the time recording in early April 2020. That is everything. But of course, life continues. And this sort of throws some stuff into sharp relief, which I think brings us to our first main episode man, which is all about sales channels strategy, big area.

Jason Miles

Yeah. Love it. It’s a good one. And I think a lot of people are, you know, thinking through what platform they’re on right now what they might need to change or tweak what’s been impacted because of the covert, you know, impact. And it’s a good time to talk about it even in good. Even in good times in a business, it’s a good time to talk about it. Sometimes in hard times. You’re really you gotta fire, you know, to make a change. So I think it’s a good episode to talk about. Yeah.

Michael Veazey

Yeah, I think they say, bad habits breed and good times. And I think what that often means is you don’t examine the stuff that is structural level, you know, it’s like the fish aren’t very aware of the sea until you take them out of it. And then they realize they need water to survive in right. So, Amazon sellers aren’t really aware of Amazon risk until Amazon suddenly turns around and says, No, you may not ship in your non essential items to us at all. Or if you do, we’ll will fulfill it in six weeks and then suddenly become very conscious of what’s going on. So, um, let me kick off by asking you that what’s your personal experience of sales channels and before We even get into that question what what do we mean by sales channels? Can you define what that is for you?

Jason Miles

Sure. Yeah. You know, my definition of sales channel is where you place your items to be sold online, you know, so ecommerce sellers have something according to channel advisor. We have friends, their buddies there and I think my business partner Kyle told me that one of them said that they track and work with over 200 sounds like 240 channels that our e commerce channels you know, platforms that you can sell on. Now, the main ones, of course, are Amazon, eBay. eBay was a classic original kind of in many ways. But Shopify has become all the rage we consider it a channel. We so in our lingo, we call your own website, you know, a sales channel. Walmart’s coming on Super aggressively. And that’s exciting to talk about so you get the idea there. And so to answer I guess my personal experiences we started on eBay. I think bought that Dave Asprey? No info, telemarketing, you know, odd TV course. I don’t know if you ever saw those, but in the US, he was a popular guy. And I come across that one now he was it was it was all on, you know, TV marketing in the 90s for make money on on the internet and it was all about eBay. And Dave’s a nice guy actually in his store is sort of interesting. I bought his course I didn’t know what to do, but then we needed money. And I was like, What if that eBay stuff really would work?

Jason Miles

remembered it and went back to it and started on eBay. And we sold on eBay for you know, for 18 months as our first platform. And then we shifted to our own website. Yeah. How about you? What was your first exposure? What was your?

Michael Veazey

Like a lot of people I guess I was sort of pitched into things based on some kind of idealized lifestyle idea, I guess so so I was part of a group of people he was being resistant. Normal or not? conventional, I think it’s, it’s interesting anyway, I don’t know what you could learn from it. But history is often, you know, a good starting point. So I was part of a group, which I won’t name of several, maybe two 300 people who were coaches of various kinds, and I was there sort of half half a day trying to be a vocal coach for not really somehow we’re not sure why what was holding me back. And these guys taught coaches how to market themselves. So it’s digital marketing focused, and then they heard about the Amazon thing and tried it out. I think what really happened is they saw a possibility of a juicy commission for selling a very highly priced Amazon course. So they paid you know, several hundred people into it must have been several hundred people in that that group actually, and they’re expecting maybe 50 people go for it and buy it and I think 300 did in the end, myself included. And then they kind of, you know, ran monthly physical workshops, which is quite a nice addition to the online training and then it turned out they were not actually That credit selling on Amazon, they kind of disappeared from the sea now, but say in the meantime, they’ve got some people involved who’ve done quite well, and a lot of people who do badly and you know, I got started that way. So I guess I bought the dream. Like a lot of people.

Jason Miles

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Michael Veazey

Some of which has proved a lot of which not, of course, but means it got me started. And I’m grateful for that at least.

Jason Miles

Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the main question is what pushed, which pushes you into this and for us, we just we were desperate for money and, and we were more motivated by fear of loss. At that point, then we were about dream of riches, but we were trying to survive, obviously, financially. And so that was our first platform, then.

Michael Veazey

I think, for me, the Amazon thing this it’s interesting that the motivation and the way it sold, maybe it makes a difference when the Amazon thing was sold to me more as a sort of passive income thing, I guess if we can use that term without sort of throwing up. Yeah, but there will was an attraction about that, partly because it wasn’t what I was seeing and hating at the time, which is teaching all day every day. And but also, there was a power about that idea that’s still seduces me that because I still think it is very true, which is setting up a process where you work really hard to set the process up, and then other people run the machine or your day to day. And there is something powerful about that. And for me, that’s still an exciting thing. And that sometimes makes me and that’s interesting, because different channels bring very different things to bear that don’t they? Sure do. Well, tell me about your eBay experience. And so you sold on there for 18 months and then went over to your own website, which implies that there was something deficient about eBay or what was your experience of eBay? What was good and what pushed you away from it?

Jason Miles

Well, the back in the day auctions were a bigger part of eBay then, you know, just, you know, selling, you know, standard items. And so we were doing auctions, and so the auction business was the thing we focused on and and we just got burned out on it. mean it, it actually worked, we actually made, we made the transactional part of it the you know, sale system work where we would sell my wife’s handmade items for an increasing amount because we started to brand ourselves and in build up our own little traffic strategies, but her her items would go for three, four or $500. Her highest ever auction was $500 and 75 cents for doll clothes. And I was the marketer. She was the, you know, technical maker of it. And, but we It was a point of burnout and it wasn’t scalable. You know, I could hit relist and or restart an auction, you know, and that was easy on my side, but she was she’s physically making things, you know, to sell them. And so it’s just completely not scalable. So it was not just a platform, that was a problem for us. It was a business model as well. You know, you make an extremely good point. And I think this is one of the things where that the sort of Amazon pitch or eBay pitch or Shopify, whatever the sales channel thing is eventually has to be part of a bigger business model. Question, doesn’t it? Because, in essence, what you experienced was a problem with your sales channel, from what I’m understanding it was a problem with the production side, because it was manual production. Is that right? Yeah, exactly. So as a product and business model problem, the platform worked fine for us, you know. But that was our first first experience with it. Yeah. So

Michael Veazey

if that platform was not the problem, why did you change platform then one say stay on eBay and hiring some local person to make dolls or something? I guess that isn’t gonna work, is it? That’s it? That’s very, very bad business coaching advice, but why? why change model? It’s on my channel at all them?

Jason Miles

Yeah, after 18 months, we really revisited what we were doing. And we, we decided to pivot to digitally downloadable sewing patterns. And you couldn’t do those. So then we we had a problem. We had a platform problem because we changed our product strategy. It sounds like you obviously changed channel from eBay to Shopify after 18 months, but it also from what you were saying it sounded like it was about burnout because of the non scale production side. So why Did you change the shopping channel? If you like? Oh, yeah, I wish we should change from eBay to Shopify, we change from eBay to WordPress. And we lived on WordPress for like, four, four years, something like that.

Michael Veazey

Interesting. Oh, that’s another discussion. All right, but let’s nasty for a second. All right, well, let’s walk it. Why don’t you change from eBay to your own site? And let me put it that way?

Jason Miles

Yeah. Cuz we, we wanted to change our product to digitally downloadable sewing patterns. And so we had, as soon as we made that shift in our product, we realized we needed a platform that would support it, eBay wouldn’t support it. Amazon wouldn’t support that they, you know, so we, it pushed us to direct to consumer through our own website. And so the first website that we tried to set up was designed for photographers, and it was like a real template driven, like goofy thing for photographers to do their proofs for clients. And it was just just a I mean, it was Whatever I mean, you know back that was a long time ago so the e commerce options were a lot different and then ultimately we switched right into WordPress and lived there for four years and horrible horrible thing called WordPress.

Michael Veazey

So what why is WordPress SEO horrible for e commerce? Because I hear from some people that it’s actually pretty good. So there’s obviously a discussion to be out there.

Jason Miles

Oh, man. Yeah. Well, that’s a fun topic to get into it’s it’s horrible for e commerce and the reason is, because it was not built for e commerce. And people can bolt on plugins and you know, plugins for various things, including the shopping cart and, and on and on and on. And it just is it ends up being a Franken site, Frankenstein site of of a messy set of things, and it just doesn’t deliver the way that Shopify does in terms of the true back end, dashboard analytics insight into what’s happening functionality and I’ve never met anybody before. Run both WordPress and Shopify and said that they liked WordPress better. I just, it’s just not there’s not they’re not equivalent. And the only people who would say WordPress is better people who haven’t tried Shopify and they’re defending their own. You know, they’ve got a sunk, sunk cost fallacy in their mind going where they don’t want to do the work to switch over to Shopify, you know, and that’s a lot of people are in that mindset.

Michael Veazey

Yeah. Which is, I guess, to a point Fair enough, if you’re right in the early days, and you haven’t proven something yet. But interesting, I haven’t I haven’t tried either. But I have to say I use WordPress a hell of a lot. And I can see why the essence of WordPress is not going to be geared to e commerce because it’s essentially a blogging platform and even to try and get it to go slightly outside of that can be quite problematic. I think in the end, there are certain things that it’s not even that comfortable. Yeah, it’s not mega comfortable. Even with podcasting, it kind of works because a podcast is effectively a blog post plus a media file. But yeah, it’s funny how different things work for different things in there. All right. So that’s interesting. So in the end, so we’ve discovered not to use WordPress, which kind of sounds obvious, but I have not done either.

Unknown Speaker

But

Michael Veazey

so it sounds like what happened is that you had a production side non scalability, but your business that forced a selling channel change, is that right?

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, exactly. Right.

Michael Veazey

So if you had the ability on eBay to sell digital products, then I guess what, in the form of what PDFs or something, then would you’ve continued to probably still be on eBay and eBay? That’s very interesting.

Jason Miles

I don’t know, I guess we probably would be I don’t know. I mean, it’s a good question. I mean, I think sometimes the things you look back on that are hardships are actually blessings in disguise, you know?

Michael Veazey

Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, one of the things about the Amazon game that quickly became apparent to me is that it’s gonna be very, very capital intensive and hard to scale, whereas consulting type stuff is the absolute opposite. So, you know, there’s not it’s all capital intensive, really, you’ve got to set up a website if you pay a designer They’re in. But but you can get started practically for free by putting content out there, but it’s very unscannable of your own time. So I guess that was one of the reasons that it forced me to do something that I kind of vaguely intended to do for years, which is set up a content base website, I’d always imagined that I’d set up a blog as in physical written content. And I ended up doing it by the form of podcasts. But that said that the idea of doing some kind of radio had been in the back of my mind for probably three decades. I mean, literally, since I was about 10. Yeah, I made a radio show every Christmas with a friend of mine, who’s now gone to become a very important senior broadcast journalist at the BBC. Behind Yes, he’s a senior producer behind one of the programs that that has about 10 million listeners day, you know, she’s she’s pretty serious business. I mean, she did go to Oxbridge and you know, get the proper degree and I went to spell deeds University say, only slightly hung up about that, as you can hear, but it’s funny that in a way, sometimes there’s a sort of lurking profession, waiting to happen in some people, I think, in my case, broadcasting, which is waiting to happen, has kind of came together with with Amazon. But I think the thing that pushed me to actually get it done was the realization that the business model nature of Amazon, it is indeed very scalable, but the scaling elements, the power behind that scale is capital, and I realized that was gonna be a limitation. And that was gonna have to balance that business model limitation back out in it. Yeah. So should we buy digital products? I mean, we’re getting away from sales channels here. But this is where where things actually go when you talk to people, isn’t it? It’s why why did you guys decide that digital products was the way to mass produce things? Because after all, for most people, they just get those clothes made by somebody else in what you’d call a factory, but this is somebody else doing the work for you. Right? So why did you decide to pivot types of product?

Jason Miles

Well, it was a, you know, the merits of digital products became clear in my mind, you know, I mean, to have something made once and resell it 10 times or 100 times or 1000 times Better than having something made once and sold once. And, you know, so then question is, can you find a category in which that can be true for you? And so it was true in our category because a lot of people make sewing based. seamstresses like to make items and, and the sewing industry is not dead. It’s a there’s a large industry. And, you know, people in that industry that, you know, the customers, they hoard to things. They hoard fabric and hoard patterns. And so we immediately realized that once we got into it, and we’ve taken off ever since, yeah, yeah.

Michael Veazey

fabric and they will patterns. Okay, that’s interesting. I’m, I’m sure that there’s an equivalent that anyone can think of in their industry. I’m just trying to quickly think through, I mean, patterns could be satellite and I hold sort of digital information. I have just reams and reams and reams of it. So I could probably produce about you know, 50 digital products. If I had to in about a year, I’m not saying it’ll be good or original. But yeah, people who are different things than they do depending on their obsessions.

Jason Miles

Yep. Yep, absolutely. So I guess that’s kind of my thoughts on it. Let me ask you this. What, you know, what? What’s your experience with, you know, your clients and the people in 10 k collective? What is it? Are they happy Amazon sellers and don’t want to hear about anything else? Or are they frustrated Amazon sellers and looking for alternatives? What’s their state of mind these days?

Michael Veazey

No, that’s a very good question. I think all Amazon sellers to degree are frustrated because Amazon tends to treat people in a very offhand way. And I was talking to a lawyer yesterday who I’m going to get on the podcast, Robert, right to. We’re talking about the fact that Amazon teach the small guys, you know, like, they’re not important. And I said, from a business point of view that makes sense from the sort of point of view of democracy or normal law, legal sort of frameworks, that doesn’t work. And he said, Actually, I’ve represented somebody big I can’t tell you who it is, but trust me, they were treated in just the same way. So that is one of the frustrations with it. It’s not so much as a platform as the relationship between the people who run the platform and the third party sellers. So that that is true for everybody, I think to be honest. So does that answer your question?

Jason Miles

Yeah, I think so. So then, are they actively selling on Walmart? or eBay or Shopify? Or are they in the process of those things? Or how do they balance their sales channels right now? Uh,

Michael Veazey

right now is a very interesting and active debate, I think, because suddenly the sales channel that was Amazon and the fulfillment channel that was FBA, which for a lot of people are the same, although not all have suddenly come, you know, become very pressured by sheer demand, I think. So before that, I guess a lot of people had their own site. A lot of people on Shopify, some people on WooCommerce and Magento. I don’t think I know anyone who’s actually on WordPress. Actually, as a series e commerce site but they a lot of people are taking steps in that direction. But the the thing that hampered them, in a sense was the success of that Amazon business. So I knew one business, for example, that came on board with about a third of their sales on their their own website and two thirds via Amazon in sort of autumn 2017 now has about five times the sales on Amazon that they have on on Shopify, and that those sales have gone from like, whatever, 200,000 pounds a month to a million pounds a month. So it’s going to be very, it gets harder and harder to replicate what Amazon does for you in terms of revenue and growth.

Jason Miles

Exactly. Right. And that’s the allure, of course, isn’t it is the scale.

Michael Veazey

Exactly. And that scalability is is hard to replicate. So that sort of puts people off and a lot of people just focus on Amazon and put up with the fact that they’re at risk and the fact they don’t get treated badly or they feel treated badly.

Unknown Speaker

But

Michael Veazey

it gets us going waves every so often people sort of do another push back towards their own site as Amazon gets harder to contact the customers which is slightly different It’s not so much about the scale or the revenue or even the security of the revenue now it’s more about the ability to develop relationship with your customers really I think that’s ultimately one of the drivers that pushes people away from them as

Jason Miles

well to the extent that you’ve created a brand then obviously you want to do that and you want to manage the brand and the relationship with the brand directly. It’s in times where your business is in jeopardy on one of the sales channels that you realize that secondary channels important do you haven’t I just curious Do you have any folks really digging into walmart.com nobody that I know of? No.

Michael Veazey

walmart.com now every so often you hear about it? I’m going to maybe two three years ago it was kind of fashionable Um, and then people said that the numbers were really low and I think I remember talking to will turn into bata, who used to sell on eBay a lot with his brother and he was saying that Walmart’s got a certain kind of person and that they’re not a desirable client, I guess or you know, customer was the impression I got from him. Yeah, times have changed.

Jason Miles

Walmart is coming on so strong as a competitor to, to Amazon and the back end process for selling on Walmart is becoming more and more clear to to sellers. And so a lot of Amazon sellers here, at least in the states are looking at Walmart as sort of the next frontier. And they just launched as we record this probably two months ago, a equivalent to FBA FBA. And so they have their own system for that. And so, you know, we’ve done a conversation about that with Kyle, my business partner, recently one of our tips of the week, and it’s it’s a, it’s an exciting time to think about the opportunities on Walmart and we do have coaching clients that are making good money relative to their Amazon sales, they’re making good money as well on Walmart. So it’s becoming a thing

Michael Veazey

without being any interesting episode to do a specific focus one on that actually, well I mean, what’s interesting to me is that people talk about Jeff Bezos as the world’s richest man, which is true. But I believe that the wall Waltons Is it the Walton family collectively are the richest people in the world, right. So they have the financial firepower to really take on Amazon. And I understand that Walmart as a whole probably still has bigger revenue than Amazon annually is about right.

Jason Miles

I don’t know the actual numbers, but what Walmart is the largest retailer in the US. And I think you have to suss out the difference between AWS and, you know, Amazon’s other revenue lines to kind of do a direct comparison. But yeah, but Walmart’s huge and yeah, and they are super aggressive in terms of how they compete with people and they’re coming on man. I mean, they’re coming for, for Amazon. And so I think it’s going to be raison. And it’ll be interesting to see how how, you know us as third party sellers tap into that. And one of the secrets Just so you know, is a simple back end way to get into while more.com is vs. Your Shopify site. The one you know, the challenge with walmart.com right now is they don’t have the equivalent to Seller Central. They don’t have a, you know, back end platform. It’s it’s all through, you know, data feeds and stuff like that. And Shopify sorts that all out for you. And so that’s a use case, you know, value proposition for you having your stuff set up on Shopify

Michael Veazey

gets another reason to love Shopify, which I guess is your whole kind of thing that you hang your hat on. Well, I mean, this is a big old topic, we could talk for ages about this. What do you think people obsess in a very tribal way about marketplaces versus your own store? Is it? Is it a different business model? First of all, is it really just a different mentality different way of operating or, you know, or is that a red flag? Is that a red herring? I should say?

Jason Miles

Well, it depends. I mean, I think there are a lot of product sellers who can seamlessly go from eBay, to Amazon to Walmart. Those, you know, the marketplaces are frequently very equivalent. You know, in terms of how how you can operate on them as a third party seller, so, you know, I mean, your business model doesn’t need to change necessarily. They are different and unique, you know, animals in but our, with our coaching clients and Kyle’s really the expert on Amazon, he always tells people that selling in Amazon Europe or in Amazon Japan, in which he coaches people through his treat those like they’re different marketplaces altogether, you know, you know, the Amazon us sellers, you know, when they want to get into Amazon, Europe or Japan, kind of think, Oh, it’s a few buttons I haven’t pushed and it all be sorted out and he really has to walk them through the fact that it’s, it’s a heavier than that, you know,

Michael Veazey

I guess that’s true. I’m gonna Yeah, I guess each individual market works in different way. The keywords that people are looking for on Amazon Europe, I mean, Amazon UK might be different from the ones in Amazon, USA, and that’s not as much linguistical cultural difference. It’s just what happens to be in high demand here. And, yes, you’ve got obvious words like nappy In the UK becomes diaper in the USA, but also just the dynamics of the different keywords needs to be looked at fresh. But having said that, I mean, I do think it’s very much the easiest option. If you’ve got something selling in Amazon USA, I would definitely advise you to try it in Amazon Europe, as long as you do fresh research and, you know, treat the marketplace somewhat differently. But I don’t think the difference is that big, to be honest, in my experience,

Jason Miles

no, no, but the back end part parts of it are important to think through like, you know, do you set up a company in Europe? Do you have your if you’ve got a lot of shipments involved? Do you go straight into the warehouses? Which warehouses? Do you have a three PL, you know, holding company that holds product for you ahead of time, the back end elements of it at scale, you know, become, you know, I mean, everything’s easy if you like, you know, let’s sell $500 Yes, that’s true. But you know, to the extent that you’re going to do it at scale, you really got to think through quite a few corporate decisions, you know, ultimately,

Michael Veazey

yeah, I guess that is true. Yeah. I mean, I suppose a lot of that stuff I always figured, like, that’s kind of an essence weird. I wouldn’t say it’s none of my businesses, the entrepreneur, of course it is everything about the business is my business. But I would say, in the end, a lot of this stuff is best left to freight forwarders. And accountants Anyway, I’m not saying that you won’t, therefore make a decision. But in a way, if you’re having to get deep into the weeds to make a decision, I think that you’re trying to do somebody else’s job. Do you know what I mean? So I think for example, if I have to try and get deep into the weeds of weeds of us sales tax law, in order to make a decision about whether to sell there or not, then what I need to do is hire a US sales tax specialist or maybe even do and they compare notes to make sure that I’m clear about the overall synthesize picture that comes out of what they’re saying, and then just make a business decision. Like it’s profitable sale, that it won’t be profitable, or there’s high risk or there’s low risk. You know what I mean? I think sometimes people get themselves very caught up in VAT. For example, America start worrying about VAT. I’m like, you know, this a very standardized skill set for the last generation. just hire an accountant. In the UK, and they shouldn’t be a big problem or hire a US specialist in the UK, the 80 because it’s it’s incredibly commonly solved problems. You know, I mean, I feel people put weird blocks in the way sometimes you,

Jason Miles

You make it sound so easy, but the thing about it we’ve worked through with clients is this this one particular cliche phrase, but it’s so true. And that’s that a confused mind always says no, yeah. And so when people get confused about any of it VAT or, you know, setting up an illegal entity in a different country or anything that they’re not familiar with, even working with an attorney, I mean, a lot of what I do as a coaching, you know, kind of helper to people is refer them to good people. And so I’m almost a middleman that says, here’s a good attorney. She’s very easy to work with. Just I’ll email you an introduction, no big deal and that that person is it gets their guard up a little bit, you know, like what an intellectual property attorney or whatever and yeah, So, you know, that’s that’s the reality is as entrepreneurs, we still have resistance to change sometimes. And we have, you know, a point of stopping when we’re confused. And that’s the challenge.

Michael Veazey

Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think in a way, maybe as Europeans, we’re used to being confused with Americans. I mean, the US sales tax law, US import law is just constantly changing. I mean, the last, you know, in the five years that I’ve been involved with the e commerce game, we just over five, it’s, it’s just been a whirlwind. And we’re kind of used to the fact that nobody understands us tax sales tax law, though, it’s getting a lot clearer and better and being sorted out. And nobody, including Trump seems to know what Trump’s about to say. So on any subject, everybody, including, you know, import tariffs and his relationship with China is pretty bad. And he seems to be consciously trying to make it worse. So, I mean, for good, bad or indifferent that affects us as e commerce sellers right directly, right. So I guess we used to, always, Americans are used to being confident that they understand how the world works. By the way, it doesn’t mean they do. But the mentality is probably more of a shock when you come to Europe and in my experience specific things, freak Americans out even very, very businesslike intelligent guys who’ve got a lot of success, specifically VAT. So I would suggest Don’t get involved in VAT. Hire an accountant who can give you a number and tell you this is how much it’s gonna cost you to import X amount of stuff into your and then you know, you can make a decision that’s not going to be profitable, that is going to be profitable, right? Do you know what I mean? I think our businesses to stay at the 60,000 foot view sometimes it’s the tension though, isn’t it? Yeah. Entrepreneurs dig into the weeds. And I mean, the to understand what’s going on in your business. But in the end, I think, you know, it’s either profit or loss. It’s either there’s a certain cash flow pattern to it. There’s a certain risk profile to it. And of course, yeah, you should understand the risk profile of what you’re doing. I think I would turn this on its head and say a lot of Americans have misunder misunderestimated as George Bush used to say, the risk profile of what they’re doing importing from China. Find it in the USA, because number one, Trump and the taxes and number two sales tax. They’re both messy, very messy and prone to volatile personalities. I Trump again, sorry to keep going on about it. Like, okay, let’s see who’s in the White House, but it affects, you know, profoundly affects all of us in the e commerce business. And I think America is really massively underestimate that just because they think it’s conventional and unfamiliar. Whereas VAT has not changed very much you pay 20%. On stuff above a certain threshold that’s been pretty stable for generations.

Jason Miles

Yeah, you could be could be. Yeah, I take your point.

Michael Veazey

I don’t know, man. I mean, since the question, isn’t it? I mean, you know, where should you worry and where should you not? I’m not saying there are complexities involved in you know, different import pathways from you know, imported from China and the USA is different from point from entity USA, which is different from China to Europe for American sellers. Absolutely. There are differences. But what I suppose I’m saying is that I find it intriguing that people allow the fact that isn’t different from what they used to to dictate their actions as opposed to it’s higher or lower risk or more or less profitable.

Jason Miles

Sure,

Michael Veazey

you know what I mean?

Michael Veazey

Well, look, these are certainly really interesting topics we’ve touched on. Absolutely. There’s a ton going on here. So I think we’ve opened a few Pandora’s boxes which we’ll have to attempt to begin to close at some point that Yeah, Americans selling in Europe are freaking out about that on on amazon.com and you know, Amazon, I should say not.com Okay, UK whatever. Walmart certainly that’s something that’s that’s quite a juicy looking tip, but that we should explore Shopify versus WordPress. And that sounds like that game has already played physical products or digital products. I mean, that that is an area that I feel is if that all logistical delivery channels for physical products going to be challenged over the next while in Europe and USA, which I would strongly argue is going to be the case if not already, then now is a great time to be exporting digital products. So those are like really juicy topics to dig into in the next one

Jason Miles

Absolutely. Let’s do it, man. Let’s do it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai