The E-commerce Leader

[00:00:00] Jason: I think there’s some breakdown there in terms of the hoped for, relational components of these groups, and the reality, you know, the reality is, not as good as the fiction, that they’re putting together.
[00:00:10] TEL Intro: We are Michael Veazey in London, England, and Jason Miles in Seattle, Washington. More importantly, you are the owner of a thriving online business, and you want to become the best e-commerce leader you can be. We’re here to get you there for show notes, with links and resources mentioned today. And for other GC resources like downloads, just visit our blog, the e-commerce leader.com.
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[00:01:14] Michael: It has never been easier to join a high priced mastermind where smart people come together in a small group, learn from a guru, and build friendships. The question is, should you join one? And in this conversation we’ll discuss the considerations.
[00:01:27] So Jason, you proposed this topic. What’s on your mind? Where did you even wanna discuss this topic?
[00:01:31] Jason: Let’s go out. Well, the, yeah. The truth is I’m a sucker for the high-priced mastermind groups and just joined one . And, and I, I was been a part of them, I guess, on and off for the last seven years. And I, I just keep thinking to myself, Is this a good option for me?
[00:01:48] Why am I doing this? What do I hope to achieve? And I thought to myself, gosh. Spent a huge pile of money signing up for this new thing. We should talk about it in the podcast. And I’m happy to kind of just break down the ideas behind it and really ask the hard question, which is, is this a good idea or not?
[00:02:07] So there you go. That’s the basics.
[00:02:10] Michael: Makes a lot of sense to me. And I guess that I’m somewhat biased in the fact that I run a mastermind, but I know that I, a lot of people yeah. Have a broader definition of Mastermind than I have had. So how are you defining Mastermind, or how would you say the groups that you’re joining that you’re, that call themselves Mastermind, what’s the, what are the characteristics of it and how does that differ from just a group of people hanging out or just a masterclass, for example, or, or other forms of contact?
[00:02:36] Jason: Yeah, it’s a good question. And when you, when we propose this topic, I didn’t really connect the dots to your mastermind group, cuz I kind of do think of yours as a different entity altogether, A local group, where you, you meet in person and. You’re, you’re the facilitator, obviously it is a mastermind in what you’re doing.
[00:02:54] I’m, I was thinking more of the find a guru who has a super high ticket mastermind group that you join with. It’s, you know, all virtual people around the country or world, and then you get together maybe a time or two a year. And so that’s kind of more what I was, thinking when I proposed the topic.
[00:03:11] But to your, to your point, yeah, you, you, you do run a, a group there in London and, I’d be interested to hear your points of view on this cuz it’s definitely a different angle. So I would describe what I’m talking about. As I mentioned sort of, you know, a group that a, a guru or a, a top marketer convenes and they, you know, it’s, it’s generally a, you know, a.
[00:03:35] Fairly hefty, expense to get in and, or a waiting list depending on how they do their, creative, you know, marketing. And, and then, you know, you get to, you get to go through the program and all that. So I guess that’s kind of what I was thinking when I proposed this topic. That’s kind of what I’ve, I’ve gotten a part, been a part of in the last, you know, five, eight years.
[00:03:56] And so that’s kind of my, my frame for it. It is different than just a training or, you know, an event, because there’s an implication that it’s gonna go on for some duration time. Usually it’s like a year long thing that you’re kind of opting into or signing up for, and you have to resubscribe it.
[00:04:14] Certain amount of money and all that. And, and so that’s very different than a, you know, class or a meetup group, that kind of thing. So what’s your take on it? Am I describing it rightly or am I kind of missing it?
[00:04:24] Michael: I mean, look, really there’s, there’s no sort of dictionary or, or, you know, legal definition of it.
[00:04:30] Is it, That’s why it’s interesting to me, and I, I guess the, the pure form of, as a, I understand the origin of the word mastermind in Napoleon Hills Think Can Grow Rich, which is not necessarily the most, what’s the word? I don’t know, I guess people have their issues with, you know, who, who was Napoleon Hill and how legitimate was his take on business?
[00:04:47] I don’t know. But certainly the concept of people come together who are peers and using the peer group is, is what’s attracted me the most over the years. And, and I’ve ended up running something along those lines. And I’m, maybe, I’m bit excessively of a purist, but what it sounds like you’re saying is that there’s elements of that, I suppose.
[00:05:04] But it sounds like it’s not a class, it’s not just an event, but it’s got elements of both by the sound of it. So there is a kind of program from what you’re saying. So let, let’s, let me ize, sorry. Let me get you to get you to respond, but I do want your question of why are you doing this? I think this is a good question.
[00:05:22] Let, let’s, let’s talk that three, but before we do that, I mean, what is this program thing that you’re mentioning, how structured are these things that you’ve experienced?
[00:05:31] Jason: Well, I’ve done different ones over the last few years, and basically what I’ve continuously done is joined. You know, a mastermind offer, been a part of it, and then come to the conclusion it wasn’t right for me, not the right, you know, for, for various reasons which we can discuss.
[00:05:48] And then, you know, so it’s sort of a year long adventure for me. And then I move on to the next one. And so you could therapize that all you want . That is kind of been my practice. And I think the question is what, what is it that I’m looking for so we can, I’ve got a kind of a list of kind of checklist of.
[00:06:07] Think I look, I’m looking for what you might consider, inside of, you know, joining one of these groups and, so maybe we can talk through some of that to kind of probe the depths of like what this is and why I keep buying these I Ticket offer .
[00:06:21] Michael: Yeah. It’s not necessarily the wrong thing, but it’s an in, it’s a good thing to, to to think about like any serious experience.
[00:06:26] I mean, the first question I, I mean, the list of considerations we’ve got is really good. The only missing question from it is, What are you trying to achieve personally when you are joining? And I’m sure that many other people listening will also have mm-hmm. joining masterminds. So they’ll be going through a similar process, so hopefully useful for them as well.
[00:06:43] But for you, what is it that, let’s take the specific one, the latest mastermind you joined in your Yeah. Your joining frenzy or your habits. What, what’s prompts you to do that? What was your heart saying, I really want X and I’m hoping to get it out of this? Oh, that’s such a
[00:06:56] Jason: nice question. What was my heart saying to me?
[00:06:59] That’s,
[00:07:02] I say you don’t talk usually in such terms was like, you just used the phrase, What is your heart telling? That’s so great, man. The Americans are rubbing off on you. Yeah,
[00:07:16] Michael: you’re rubbing off on me. It’s like California magic.
[00:07:19] Jason: What my heart was telling me was, I think these are my people that I want to, you know, learn with, grow with, Potentially work, you know, work with on deals or whatever.
[00:07:30] And I think this is my, the, the leader, mentor guru, who I resonate with the most. And, and I guess that was the two, the two things that was not just the, the community that was kinda together, but, but it was also the, you know, the person who’s convening the convener, I guess you could say. So a, a convener that’s a, you know, an appealing figure.
[00:07:56] And the group of people that, that is rallying around them are the types of people I would want to be with. Hang out with that kind.
[00:08:06] Michael: It’s very interesting. I mean, and that sort of ties in with my feeling and I guess I set up a mastermind based on sort of feeling, which is not a very good way of marketing things, but it feels almost like you’re joining for the same reason.
[00:08:16] In other words, it’s about the kind of people you’re saying. It’s my kind of people. Mm-hmm. and the people you resonate with, she’s really fascinating because there’s not, unlike a class or a program, it’s not a specific objective. Like, you’re gonna learn to get qualified in some finance thing, or you’re gonna get better at TikTok marketing, or you’re gonna learn, pay the ads on YouTube, or it’s not a specific outcome.
[00:08:34] Right. But it doesn’t sound like it’s even a specific strategic outcome you’re looking for. I mean, is there any more, you know, quantifiable, justifiable outcome that you would hope to get from these things?
[00:08:47] Jason: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s specific learning objectives and, business objectives that, you know, are behind it.
[00:08:53] That’s always been my rationale. So if I go back in time and I think about, okay, what was the first. Ticket group that I joined. There was not, there was not so much learning objective, it was really relational for that program. I, I won’t mention the names cuz I don’t wanna, you know, disparage people or, or you know, whatever.
[00:09:12] I just, I be, it’s simpler to not mention that these groups or names, but, but the first group, it was really about the relationship and the opportunity to grow, in, in my skill sets. But in that the, the real driver was the relational part. That group was a hot mess. It wasn’t facilitated well.
[00:09:28] There was no real actual, program. It was hard to organize structure to it. The leader has since. Massive criminal, implications, , it’s really falling apart pretty badly. So that was, that was not so much a good outcome, although I will say some of the people, a couple of the people from that group, I still am in connection with.
[00:09:53] So interestingly, I mean, that was the first group. You know, and other groups I’ve been a part of, there was, the implication of really good process training and business systems training. And, you know, another group that, I was a part of, last year that was the real core like concept was these business principles, these business process tools, techniques.
[00:10:14] There’s, there’s a new, you know, training, every month and we go through these together and that one was real heavy on the learn a business process, learn the tools, and, but I found myself in. In the group with people who just weren’t even, they weren’t even, first of all e-commerce people, and they were hardly even marketers or, you know, they, they weren’t even in, into digital marketing.
[00:10:36] And so it was really a stretch to think I was in a peer group that made any sense for me. And, and so that wasn’t really productive. And then this year’s group, I would say, it, it hasn’t delivered. And so you said this might like Goldilocks, this, this year’s group hasn’t really delivered on, on the idea of the substance, of the meat of it.
[00:10:54] You know, like what, what, what actually I was gonna be trained on, nor has it delivered on like, people that I feel like I’m peers with. So this one has sort of struck out on both sides of the coin to use a weird mixed metaphor. I don’t know. So anyway, so that’s my, been my journey and I could describe what I’m.
[00:11:11] The one I just signed up for for 2023 if you wanna hear about that one. But yeah, I guess, I mean, yeah, ,
[00:11:20] Michael: it’s interesting to reflect. I mean, it’s somebody who’s trying to sort of market a mastermind. And, and, and by the way, I’m just to say of all the things I’ve done in business, I think it’s the thing I’m most proud of having been involved with because it feels like people have made real progress.
[00:11:33] Sometimes it’s incredibly tangible. Like somebody came to me at the, Sounds a bit self-service, but just to, to kind of back up my assertion that people, you know, somebody left on Mastermind and said, Mike, you’ve added, you know, probably 600,000 pounds, so whatever that is in dollars, the same in dollars now.
[00:11:48] But back in the day it was more, to our bottom line, not not revenue, by going in, by making us going to Germany. And that did come mostly for me, cuz I kind of pester him to do it. Yeah, Yeah. Now that was one singular outcome. That’s a bit dramatic. It’s not typical it happened, but I mean, I’ve seen many, many sort of small wins, like people not getting their accounts suspended based on the last meeting we had because they were about to do something and.
[00:12:09] Don’t do this for very concrete, solid reasons. And so I’m a big believer in it. But what’s interesting is, it it that you are sort of slightly fuzzy and yet kind of grasping towards some peer group and some structure is about the same as my marketing, the Mastermind. It’s hard to articulate the out value of a mastermind and it’s a, it’s sounding like for you, it’s hard to articulate the value of joining it.
[00:12:31] I mean, is that a fair comment? What, what, what are your feelings about that? Does it have to be articulated? Does it have to be very objective?
[00:12:38] Jason: Well, I, yeah, it’s interesting that it feels fuzzy to you. It seems clear to me. Mm-hmm. , but maybe it is fuzzy to me. I want a peer group of like-minded people that I would really say these are, these are kindred spirits to use the California talk.
[00:12:53] And, and I want super good business training that helps advance my, my business. Those two things are forefront of my mind. So some of that has to come from the gu. And some of that has to come from the peers in the group, you know? So it’s gotta be both those things. I don’t know. Is that, is that fuzzy to you?
[00:13:12] It seems clear to me. No, I don’t, I
[00:13:14] Michael: don’t think it’s fuzzy. It’s quite sort of broad, I suppose, which I am no problem with actually. I think for me, the virtue of a mastermind situation is that it can be quite broad. Because if you want something very specific, you probably these days would go and get a very specific video course on mm-hmm.
[00:13:28] you know, I dunno, for example, TikTok advertising, if you want to be that specific skill set or cleaning up your finances, you know? And so I think broadly is actually quite viable, but what’s interesting is it doesn’t seem to giving you great satisfaction over the years. And let, let me ask Yeah. ,
[00:13:44] Jason: and then, you know, what’s interesting is I, I actually, as I’m reflecting on this, I’ve never thought about it before, but you know, I have a graduate degree.
[00:13:53] It was a part of a program, it was really helpful to me. The graduate degree fulfilled those two things. It put me in relationship with people that were my peers that I like to learn from. And it gave me, tons obviously of, of the, you know, the coursework, the training. And I, I dropped out of a doctoral program.
[00:14:09] And you know, it’s funny, as I look back on it, I dropped out of the doctoral program cuz I, I went to the first cohort. I, I, I got in the program, I signed up, I went to the first, you know, week weekend meeting of the, the cohort. And, it was immediate. Lee, in my mind, these were not the right people for me.
[00:14:27] And I could explain why, but I won’t. But they just were not my people. And then also the, the work that they ask us to do, , I’ll never forget the first assignment was a two page paper on the leadership of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Which great person I love in respect his work. But to write a two page paper for a doctoral program, I said to myself, What in the world are you talking about?
[00:14:52] Like, give me some beef here, man. Like, what’s the challenge? A two page paper? Like, I mean, that’s like seventh grade, you know, coursework or something like that. So I was immediately not interested in like, the difficulty. And they weren’t my people. And I literally walked out that weekend and I, I left a $5,000 deposit behind.
[00:15:11] I could have appealed and got it back, I guess, but, it just, it didn’t fit me. So anyway, I guess that’s a, I’m on a similar journey, you know? And, and that’s, it’s part of it.
[00:15:22] Michael: Yeah, very interesting to reflect on this stuff, I guess, it, in a funny way, it seems to me from experience, my experience in talking to, you know, clients over the years and, and friends in the e-commerce space, that it’s almost as hard to find a really good course or mental or mastermind program.
[00:15:39] And it feels like the, My Spine program you’re talking about are sort of a combination of those things as it is to find a winning product. It’s, it’s actually just because you are paying doesn’t guarantee success. Right. It, it just, it’s actually quite a subtle match. I think
[00:15:51] Jason: you realize those people are trying to make a winning product out of their mastermind group.
[00:15:56] Michael: Well, of course, yeah. Well, I guess, yeah. Finding, finding a winning product and you’ve got some more sort of, Every day. Should we say considerations here that I, I don’t want to gloss over, We should go through it, but it did strike me that it was worth digging into. What, what is it you’re trying to achieve?
[00:16:08] And it doesn’t seem like the, the, there’s a great passing mark going on for the masterminds you’ve had so far. So maybe it’s good that we’re not naming them, but let’s go through some of your other questions, which I, I think you’re also really good. I mean, what do you think for the considerations that you, you think through when you’re choosing a mastermind?
[00:16:23] Jason: Well, I mean, I think the first question, that comes to my, it comes to my mind is, you know, do you have the time to do the, the hard work of attending the meetings, doing the, you know, training materials or, you know, the preparatory work, whatever it is involved in the, the learning objectives, and being honest about that with yourself.
[00:16:44] There have been periods in my life where I was just too busy to really engage with content or relationship building where I, I didn’t show up to the party ready to, you know, build friendships and, and learn with people. And so that’s, that’s the first obje, you know, consideration in my mind is, do I have the time and energy to be a part of a group, and bring my best to it?
[00:17:04] And, and I think that’s the, the first consideration. Second one I would is probably the most top of mind for a lot of people, which is, do you have the money to pay your way into it? You know, some of these are 10,000, 20,000, $30,000 endeavors, at the high end of, you know, what you can get a join or be a part of.
[00:17:22] And so, you know, that’s sort of the question is, the other question is, do you have the money to do it? So those two are top of mind, I think time and money, and this is sort of obvious. What are your thoughts on those? Yeah,
[00:17:33] Michael: I think, They’re kind of obvious, but what happens is we all get this sort of, excitement that we, when its something new mm-hmm.
[00:17:38] that’s a wonderful moment for the person selling the program. It’s also a wonderful moment for the person joining it. But then of course, often the reality is that, you know, all the things that were. Keeping you busy in your life before, haven’t gone away, you’ve now got an extra thing to put in there.
[00:17:52] And, and Yes, so I’ve seen that pattern and it, it really varies a lot. I mean, people in the mastermind have sometimes have drifted around for a few months and then they drift off. Not because they weren’t serious to start with or because I’m trying to keep them on in some artificial way either. But the truth is, life got in the way and they’ve got other projects and that’s true.
[00:18:08] Entrepreneurial types are always doing things like in your case you have your charity work, you have your eCommerce core business with, with cinema, your wife. Mm-hmm. . And then you’ve got the training business with Kyle and that’s all the, And then happy gardening life probably you’ve got a bit of a real estate and park cuz everyone does.
[00:18:21] Mm-hmm. , you know, certainly people have a lot going on. Right. And particularly entrepreneurial types, they’re always adding things and so they’re not necessarily the best. I’m certainly really terrible at judging how much I can add to my plate and, and I’m not the only one. So it’s actually, it is worth sitting down and actually thinking too seriously.
[00:18:36] And actually I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have quite a high price point. To force you to do that, to either make a yes or no decision cleanly is probably helpful to you as well, I think.
[00:18:45] Jason: Yeah, that’s what I was just gonna mention as well, is I think these are linked because I think that’s one of the reasons why the, you know, top gurus or mentors or whatever, don’t just say, Hey, I wanna pick from my friends that I know that are, you know, my students or whatever, and put a group together.
[00:19:00] They actually put a price tag on it. That’s a stop and think number, because I think what they really want is people to seriously devote their time and energy to the, the meetings, the, you know, attendance, the participation. And I think that’s a core consideration. Is it, And which is why you wouldn’t just make these things free necessarily, is because, because people won’t value it if it’s just free.
[00:19:24] They won’t show up. They won’t. And we all know this, like those of us who are marketers of courses or that kind of thing. But this, this takes it to an extreme, you know? And the reality is that if you really want people’s best, you’ve gotta make them have some emotional bond to, you know, Involving themselves in the outcome.
[00:19:45] Money’s sort of the, one of the worst or weakest. But it’s still a, it’s a proxy for, you know, mental and emotional commitment. And so I think that’s a consideration.
[00:19:55] Michael: A proxy for mental and emotional commitment. I like the way you, you put that, and I think it’s true. I I, I’ve certainly seen, I’ve run free groups.
[00:20:02] I’ve been part of free groups mm-hmm. and the quality of the people in the groups is not the same as the quality of the group. Which is interesting cause I’ve been in free groups and I’ve been in groups where some of the couple of the same people were there that I was running mm-hmm. and because they were paying a bit more money, they, they say those who pay, pay attention.
[00:20:16] That’s often used. It feels like an excuse that a sales would use to sell you stuff, but it’s actually true. Right. It’s not for me. Right. And I think it’s a really important thing. The other thing is that, this is a slightly more subtle point, but to the point that money’s a slightly crude way doing it, you’ve got two forms of agreement as, I can’t remember which psychologist took about this.
[00:20:32] Within a business realms, you’ve either got a, like you commit to church, to for church to preach, for example. Right. And if you’re not a professional preacher, that’s not your day job that pays the rent or the church doesn’t take care of you. That’s not why you’re doing. You, you get equally, feel the commitment to do that for a certain reason, if money’s changed hands, it’s a professional commitment, which is a different type of flavor of commitment.
[00:20:53] And it changes the nature of the commitment. There’s an implicit understanding. You’re paying money to somebody, somebody’s running it, and there is an implicit understanding that you’re gonna get value for that money as well, which I think is a healthy pressure to put on the other person, the other side as well.
[00:21:06] So I think it’s kind of the ties that bind, isn’t it? And I think, yeah, my experience of Masterminds is that it’s more critical with that than it is other forms of interaction. Obviously a video course is the least interactive thing there is, and in Facebook group second, if it’s one to one and somebody doesn’t do the homework, they’re not gonna get a lot out of it.
[00:21:24] And it’s frustrating for the coach or the consultant, but it doesn’t affect other people. Whereas a mastermind lives and dies by the commitment of the members. So there is something really important about that. I mean, what’s your experience been as a, as a mastermind member, first of all, of commitment and how much that’s part of it for you?
[00:21:40] Jason: It is interesting. I think generally leaders that are le leading these groups or who are pulling them together, convening them, I think they ask too little of their participants and they set the bar too low. And, you know, I mean, if you think about, significant programs and my, my daughter just started two months ago at uc, Davis Law School, so she’s getting her, her, you know, law degree Juris Doctorate.
[00:22:07] And it was a competitive, school to get into and, and it cost a lot of money. She got a huge scholarship to help, but still, But, those. Those, programs are no joke. I mean, like one of the things she told me was the first professor said, I forget the name, that phrase that they use, but basically it’s like a hot seat where you have readings every, you know, week before the cor, the, the class and the professor will just call on someone and say, Hey, summarize the reading for us properly please.
[00:22:36] And if randomly, and if you don’t, if you hadn’t done your reading and hadn’t really mentally prepared that script ahead of time, you’re done. Like the course is in, you know, like you’re in jeopardy and the course, and that’s just, that’s just part of, you know, that’s, that’s table stakes for being in a program like that.
[00:22:55] And so I think, you know, the, to be honest, I think people want a challenge. I think, I think ch people who like challenges want a challenge. And I think a lot of course, or you know, mentorship program designers create it for the laziest, slowest. Less least, you know, committed members so that they feel a part of it.
[00:23:17] And I, I, I think that might be the opposite of what’s effective. And so, you know, I think there, I think there’s something to be said there for really putting the screws down on people and saying, Look, this is part of the program you’re signed up for. And, and then so that, in that regard, then maybe a certification or a, some kind of perceived outcome.
[00:23:35] It is, it is a reward, you know, for being a part of the program. And most masterminds don’t do that. Most aren’t like a certification or a training or something like that. But universities are good at that. You know, you can get into the executive, certification program at University of Pennsylvania or NYU or you know, Stanford or whatever, and the expectation is you’ll get a certificate at the end of it, therefore you’re, you know, invested.
[00:24:01] It is a tie that binds. And so anyway, I I, I think that’s an important consideration in, into it is, you know, how stringent, or, or like how, how hard do you have to prepare and to be ready to show up?
[00:24:11] Michael: You know, I really like that. I, I think you put your finger on something that’s actually extremely missing in the market and it makes me reflect on my work as a, a must my, you know, creator and runner or whatever I am and convener.
[00:24:23] And I think that one of the things that’s come back for some of the more committee members is we don’t talk about numbers enough. And, and he’s absolutely right. And I have had this kind of squeamishness cuz I didn’t wanna force people to reveal things they’re not comfortable with. But on the other hand, as long as they trust each other and, and the Greek knows each, it’s quite small and there’s been a lot of people who’ve been in for a long time, which is one of the virtues for the members.
[00:24:41] It’s not great for me in terms of I need to expand it more, but it, it, the core work is gains from that. And actually, you know what, they know each other as well as anyone and trust each other as well as anyone in the Amazon game, particularly paranoid universe somehow. And actually I think I need to step up and, and say, let’s.
[00:24:59] Profit, and let’s define by the way, grows, profit, operating profit, financial costs, you know, and, and actually do a proper job of that. Because I’m getting that from numbers. And to your point, I think that the challenge is really important for taking it seriously actually, and actually feeling that it’s worth something in the first place.
[00:25:17] I mean, my dad did Laura Cambridge by the way, so that every week he’d have to defend his essay one to one, grilled by some guy. Mm-hmm . And you wouldn’t necessarily be thrown out of the university. Didn’t get it right. But that’s the reason why the Cambridge degree is a kind of gold standard, because it’s tough.
[00:25:30] it was even worse in the day. You had to run, learn Roman law and whatever, ridiculous things. But you know, universities kind of go off the deep end with random stuff you don’t need. And the commercial world could, in theory, find a heart, a middle ground, couldn’t it, between that kind of rigor and the practicality.
[00:25:46] So I guess it’s there for the taking, isn’t
[00:25:47] Jason: it? I think so I think we’re describing a mastermind model that doesn’t exist right now. Doesn’t exist. I was about
[00:25:53] Michael: to say, have you experienced this so far anywhere or, or elements of that?
[00:25:56] Jason: No, but I can tell you that in the marketplace I see other examples. Have you seen those, Do they do these in England where it’s like the, the Tough Mudder or like the competitions where you, you have like CrossFit where, but you like, and it’s almost like the, the, Ironman, but it’s for the everyday guy, you know, or gal who wants
[00:26:15] Michael: to like, you know.
[00:26:16] Yeah. I mean, pretty much anything that exists in America exists in some form here. So yeah, we have that kind of slightly insane, kind of sports things, which is kind of fun. I’ve never done one That’s interesting. I’ve done half marathons, which is bad enough. .
[00:26:27] Jason: Yeah. But it’s in, it’s a, it’s an extension of that idea where it’s just like, Hey, here’s a personal challenge.
[00:26:33] Oh yeah. You don’t get the prize unless you get to the finish line. You like, you know, you have to, and I did that. I, you know, did the Chicago Marathon in 2007 and. It was misery and I hated it and never wanna do anything like that again. But, it, but those, I think those types of challenges, and there is obviously a huge model right now for challenges.
[00:26:53] Pedro DEOs perfected that the last couple years, and maybe that’s a kernel of this idea, is, Hey, push yourself to do something hard and I’m gonna help you do it. You know? So anyway, so, so, so I think that’s, that’s part of it. Now let’s get back to our list, I guess, here of considerations. I, I think another key consideration that I kind of touched on at the beginning is, is it the right group for you in terms of the right mentor and the right fellow learners?
[00:27:16] And to me, that comes down to just more than just the topic. Like it can’t just be a TikTok marketing guru and people who wanna learn TikTok marketing. It has to be some other kind of, I guess you could say, The, the social, and cultural demographic woven in are like, are these the right kind of people I want to hang out with?
[00:27:37] You know, in that example, you know, if it’s TikTok guru and people who wanna to learn TikTok marketing, I could just, in, in your mind’s eye, you could imagine, I could just imagine that’s like a 24 year old leader who’s got like 7 million TikTok followers and it’s all a bunch of people who wanna, you know, do what that person’s doing.
[00:27:56] I have no interest in being with those people. you. Like, that’s just not that, it’s not of interest to me at all. Even though I wrote a book called Instagram Power and YouTube Marketing Power and Pinterest Power, it just, it, it’s not the right demographic for me. And I think this is one of the things I realized when I was, after I wrote those books, The people who wanted to learn that stuff.
[00:28:17] I wanted to work with small business marketers or, or small business owners who wanted to do marketing. But what people started like getting attracted to that, those books and wanted to connect with me and follow me and do, you know, connect and, and be part of programs and stuff, They were more like, 23 year old social media marketers who were just, you know, paid gig workers or, or people who were just, you know, in the industry.
[00:28:40] And I wanted to work with the bosses and I wanted to be in connection with the people who were, you know, the small business owners. And so I realized this is an important component of it, is that it’s gotta be deeper than just the learning objective kind kind of piece. There’s gotta be more to it than that in terms of who you wanna bond with, you know,
[00:28:59] Michael: peer group.
[00:29:01] That makes a lot of sense. And. I guess that’s kind of where some of the magic comes from with this. And in a sense, I think that if you have a very clear defined community mm-hmm. , then you are offering a service in the sense that it’s not easy to find that exact type of person out there. This is the one reason why the 10 K collected Mastermind, I think is continued to have its place, even though a lot of masterminds out there.
[00:29:21] But for sort of British, Amazon sellers who are doing six to seven figures. I mean, that’s actually pretty specific and it’s possibly too narrow. Mm-hmm. , but at least the people in the rooms know that the people absolutely know cold as long as I’m not making it up. And it becomes very quickly that it’s true that they’re experiencing the same kinds of challenges and have often come up with similar solutions that some of which works, some worth trying and modeling.
[00:29:42] And so that there is, I think my contention, my thesis has been that if you really nail the. The who? The who, the who, exactly. The people as opposed to the mentor, the, the mm-hmm. , the people in the, in the group that organically a lot of the rest of the content to some extent, sorts itself out. And that has been my experience.
[00:30:01] But the next question, I guess a, a related question would be to add to your question, is it the right structure for you Because mm-hmm. , obviously a lot of the programs you are talking about have a sort of program element, and it sounds like you’ve also been somewhat disappointed by that as well. What’s been your experience about what, what were your hopes going into some of these things with the more structured program and what was the reality?
[00:30:23] Jason: Well, just to circle back for the who finding, identifying your who, just as a concluding thought on that. I think what I’ve been , this one’s horrible. I think what I’ve been victimized by , so that’s so horrible to say it that way, but is mastermind group conveners who haven’t clarified their, who sufficiently and then.
[00:30:45] I get a part of this group and I’m like, These aren’t my people. This person didn’t clarify their, who sufficiently. I wanted to learn from them and I wanted to learn the things, but it’s not the, I’m not the in the right who group. And, but to your point, you have clarified your, you know, London based in person meetup group for people who are, you know, Amazon UK sellers.
[00:31:06] That’s a very tight niche. And I, I don’t think it’s too tight. I think you, I think that’s why your group probably really works well. And so anyway, I think that’s an interesting component of this. Now, as it relates to the structure of the group, all of these that I’ve been a part of has been a mix of, of virtual, and in person and the, combo has been interesting to me.
[00:31:26] I, I guess what I’m looking for is, people I feel like I can bond with. But I do have social anxiety in groups. I don’t, in Zoom meetings so much, I mean, it’s just like, I don’t care in Zoom meetings, but in a real, in real life groups, I have social anxiety. I don’t like to be a part of groups. I try to avoid them.
[00:31:44] I try to get out of, be in at meetings like that. I just, it’s not, it’s not life giving for me. It’s, it’s draining, you know? It’s like, stressful. So, but so I don’t know. So I mean, that’s, I think part of the frustration for me maybe is, to the extent these leaders want it to be an in-person thing that creates, anxiety for me.
[00:32:04] And then I find myself being like, Do I really need to be a part of this? Do I really need to go? And so I think that’s a tension point. I think in their minds what they’re thinking is, Well, you’ll have been online with these people enough times that the in person will just be, you know, enjoyable and fun and will learn together and have a great time.
[00:32:21] And those things might be true, but I’m. Well, the, the being in person and learning, having a great time might be true, but I don’t think the preparatory bonding and connections, really happen through Zoom so much. So I think there’s some breakdown there in terms of the, the hoped for, relational components of this group, these groups, and the, and the reality, you know, the reality is, is, not as good as the fiction, that they’re putting together.
[00:32:45] And so I think that’s part of the, the, the challenge of it. Now, I’ll say another component of it, and that’s some of the educational componentry of these things that I’ve been a part of, ha have, have gone in one of two ways. Either it’s all teaching, like, now we will teach you this thing, and there’s not enough sharing and group talk and all that, or it’s the other way and there’s just not, there’s no beef.
[00:33:09] Like there’s no, there’s no real substance. Or the substance just doesn’t even on topic. Like, I sign up for a program and then I get training that’s completely other, completely different than the core thing that I thought I was gonna learn from, you know, the guru. So that, I think those are the challenges related to the actual content and, you know, components of, the attendance and all that.
[00:33:29] Wrapup: Well folks, hope you’ve enjoyed today’s show about masterminds. It may sound a bit self-serving for me to talk about masterminds since I’ve run one for years. And for Jason to talk about master. Since , he’s obviously been working through his own, quest to find the perfect e-commerce Mastermind. But guess what?
[00:33:45] The reason why we’re doing this is for you, not for us, and lots of the members of my mastermind and my e-commerce mastermind friends. If you want in anything that I, I run, have joined a lot of mastermind in their time. Some have been very expensive and of course there’s a broader thing of finding, you know, perfect training and communities in general and a lot of them have found there’s some good stuff out there and also had their frustration.
[00:34:08] So this is a journey that a lot of people are on. And I think the further on the journey of creating. Business for your own self, you are the more likely you are to be in a situation where you’re looking for a mastermind. In my experience, my own personal experience, that with my Amazon selling friends and, eCommerce, selling friends generally, and of course my own Mastermind members, so it would almost be a bit weird not to give you a chance to check out the Amazon mind that I run.
[00:34:33] If it’s relevant for you, it’s for six, seven figure Amazon sellers based in the UK or Europe. So if you’re American, because the physical in person meetings are such a key part of it, that’s probably not gonna be for you. That is to say, based in America, if you sell in America, but live in the uk, it’s perfect for you.
[00:34:49] If you live in Europe, they’re also fine. We have members fly in from different places to come and meet with us. I got people come from Belgium soon. We’ve had people from, Holland and Spain to NAV a couple of places. So, that [email protected]. That the amazon mastermind.com if you want to check it out.
[00:35:06] Small group invitation only, not invitation only, application only. And, of course, if you want to join us. Jason and Kyle’s efforts of many, many different kinds now to help Amazon and, Shopify store owners and other e-commerce operators [email protected]. So, thanks so much for listening and, we’ll see you next time.
[00:35:27] We’re gonna talk a little bit more detail about how to deal with this potentially tricky yet very rewarding thing of finding yourself the perfect community. Thanks very much for listening to the eCommerce Leader.
[00:35:38] TEL Outro: That was the E-Commerce Leader podcast with Michael Viy in London, England, and Jason Miles in Seattle, Washington. If you liked this content, don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your podcast app for free resources, including PDFs and videos on topics like traffic products and sales channels. Just go to www dot the e-commerce leader.com.
[00:36:04] No hyphens, just as it sounded. Thanks so much for listening.
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